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Project Spark Discussion Thread

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Swords761
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Project Spark Discussion Thread

Post by Swords761 »

www.projectspark.com
I was just given a beta key today for it, and my impressions are... mixed. I haven't spent too much time with this product, but enough to give some preliminary thoughts and a little bit of judgment.

For those out of the loop, this game is basically the next (and currently only) big contender for the UGC space. Atmosphir, Gameglobe, and Jumala have all unfortunately passed away.
Of those three games, Project Spark is without question very, very similar to Gameglobe, albeit with some unique features and some ideas I saw in Jumala- so if you didn't like Gameglobe's designing tools and lack of Mac/Linux support, chances are you won't like Project Spark or be able to run it. Not to mention that it not only requires Windows, but it HAS to be Windows 8.1- not 7, not even 8- only 8.1. I know this alone is going to anger a lot of people, but the way they built the platform, it uses the Windows Store and is a metro application, which I'm under the impression was decided in order to make it easily accessible for tablets and to have seamless integration with Xbox 360 & One. Also, it allows for the website to magically link to the game, sorta like how Gameglobe and Atmosphir worked, only I think better because here, there is no requirement to use a web browser. Offline mode exists and online mode is an option, and you can choose to access it from within the game or by using the website- whichever you prefer. I like this a lot and I can understand why the choice was made, but I know without a doubt this'll isolate people.

There are dozens of videos posted by the dev team on their own YouTube page here, and I'm personally impressed by the showcase of work, both from levels they've created and community-made stuff. If anything, Project Spark is quite versitile and it's not just about platforming, or pushing platforming elements into other genres. Yes, platforming is obviously core to this game, but RPG elements and other genres seem to be officially supported- I played some level that reminded me of a JRPG (or like Pokemon maybe for those who aren't familiar with JRPGs) in that you transitioned from the play scene to the battle scene in realtime, and you had options to attack or use magic, and you also leveled up after defeating an enemy.

The game is free and thus will be economically supported by purchases in-game. However, the microtransactions are not just about owning content for life after purchase like Gameglobe's early model was (before they created a membership); and here things start to get a little... fuzzy. Instead of only trying to suck money out of designers, they clearly see the profit in the players, so the system is complicated and will definitely confuse younger players and those who don't do their research, to say the least.

This is how it works, in a nutshell- there are two currencies, one you can earn by playing "challenges" and stuff like that, and one you buy with real moneys (sound familiar?).
From the designers' perspective: very much like Gameglobe. You start out with some basic fantasy props, and you can buy "packs" filled with items of some theme or just individual items in your choice of currency. I haven't looked into this side much, because I prefer the player stuff...

(EDIT 3/30/14: The following two paragraphs are no longer up-to-date with the current status of the game, but I still hold similar thoughts...)

...and boy, do they milk the player for cash, just like Xbox Live. Any level in which you personally own EVERYTHING that the designer has used, you can play for free without worry. If you come across a level in which you do NOT own ONE or more items, you must play within "Spark Time". Think of it like a trial timer- you can try out this premium content for a little bit, but afterwards you need to commit and either purchase the missing content (and at this time I cannot figure out, but believe it is simply impossible, to see what content it is that you are missing for the particular level) or buy more time in general to continue. Every user gets some amount of time daily, according to the site- I began with 30 minutes (which is small and will upset people I'm sure, but doesn't bother me too much since I'm a busy person and only have short bursts of time in which to game), and it's not clear if it'll refill back to 30 minutes tomorrow or add 30 minutes (or possibly some smaller amount) onto the time I have remaining (my guess though is the former). The only thing disappointing about this is it's impossible to filter out the premium versus the free levels right now; you can see in the level's description if it'll cost you Spark Time before you start using it up, but you won't know from a glance of levels from the browser. It's an extra click in and out that bothers me and shouldn't exist, and will definitely piss others off if they don't understand what they're getting themselves into.

Now I'm sure you're wondering how much "Spark Time" will cost- well, you buy "unlimited Spark Time" for either 1 day or 30 days, and the 30 day package is equivalent to $10 dollars when converting from their in-game currency. So not only is it essentially another $10 on top of the $10 for Xbox live if you're playing on an Xbox, but you're not even buying the infinite play time directly- you're buying a currency in which to buy the time; which is fine since the currency can go towards buying props from the designer's perspective, but for kids who want to design and play, or just play, this will absolutely confuse parents who will not understand what they're actually buying when they do the credit card transaction. And none of this at the moment is even remotely explained- the game will gently guide you into creation tutorials and will let you find the play browser without headache, but understanding the money model this game is on is kept very hush hush, and probably for good reason because of how expensive content will add up to be.

There is a lot more that I want to mention, but will only do so briefly because of how much I've already written:
Something that made Jumala special and unique was the ability to edit a level as you were playing it, and that returns here in Project Spark. I haven't tried this myself, but I think you get the picture and I just acknowledge its existence.
The graphics on the game are intense and will definitely hurt on a computer without a dedicated chip- even starting out on the lowest settings automatically, the game looked quite ugly and lagged heavily on my Toshiba laptop, which has an i5 quad-core processor and Intel HD graphics. The menu and UI also was completely screwed up for some reason on my machine (text being cut off, options missing from view), but upon testing it with a Surface Pro, the text layout was completely fine, so at least it's not a widespread issue (but it stills angers me that it's occurring for my primary machine which is only 2 years old).
And of course, this is all being controlled tightly by Microsoft, so all their ToS nonsense is here and I'm sure the service is going to suffer heavily from it, and/or shut down its online capabilities within a couple years as Microsoft always does with any project they publish.

So there you go- that's the most important stuff I can think of, but there's a lot more to it and I'm sure some of these problems will either go away or become apparent soon enough. Did anyone else get a beta key and try the game? Leave your thoughts about my opinions, or your own if you've tried the game, below.

-Swords
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freekboy31
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Post by freekboy31 »

I'm a bit disappointed that UGC didn't get enough resources to last long... I only remember Atmosphir was the last game to last very long (3-4 years approximately) so since Gameglobe shut down its almost 2 year operation, I hope less to impending yet innovative UGC games like this... perhaps it might last longer, perhaps not. I haven't tried it though.
:crate: :atmobot: coming soon..... :sentrybot:
:brickblock: :brickblock: :brickblock: :monkeyblock: :brickblock: :brickblock:
:brickblock: :brickblock: :brickblock: :brickblock: :brickblock: :brickblock:

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Rabbidfan236
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Post by Rabbidfan236 »

I really wish games like this would just give up microtransactions and be pay to play. I would like it a lot better if I could just pay for something once and not have to worry about it anymore. Because face it, the stupid ways these companies have to make up for their game being "free" are just ridiculous.

I see no reason why Spark Time needs to exist. Why should a player be required to unlock an item in order to see how another player has used it? That's like needing to have a merchant license to buy something from a store, or a construction license to stand in a building. I don't like having timers slapped on me either, and I'm pretty sure not many others do, at least if it involves money.

Perhaps one day we will all learn Java or Unity, and we will be able to create games with no limitations.
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ElectroYoshi
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Post by ElectroYoshi »

Rabbidfan236 wrote:I really wish games like this would just give up microtransactions and be pay to play. I would like it a lot better if I could just pay for something once and not have to worry about it anymore. Because face it, the stupid ways these companies have to make up for their game being "free" are just ridiculous.
Microtransactions actually could work quite well in the UGC genre if developers would just start doing them right:
[media=youtube]WXA559KNopI[/media]

As for my thoughts on Project Spark, I don't think I'm gonna get involved with it. The fact of the matter is, games like this just don't have much of a chance in today's gaming community. There's just too much hand-holding going on, and frankly, I don't want to get attached to a game only to have it die quickly thereafter. I may join Project Spark at some point, but now that Gameglobe's bitten the dust after less than 2 years, it's not likely.
I need a shot again, that sweet adrenaline.
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Anthemion
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Post by Anthemion »

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Speaking of beta keys, I got an e-mail earlier this morning (GMT+8). Sadly, I don't have a machine that runs Windows 8 (or 8.1 in this case) and I probably won't enter for a long time (or maybe even ever) judging by the amount of critics given by people in a private STEAM group I'm in, and that I had fair share of dealing with games that fall pretty quick.

Count school too, crazy assignments going on till April.
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TeeheeLP
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Post by TeeheeLP »

(This is quite a necro bump, but I need to say this) They removed Spark Time from the game. Or well, you get 24h Spark Time per day, so you only need to buy content to design now. Also, it works surprisingly well on my 4 to 5 year old computer. Steady high fps on highest settings, except when choosing a biome in the world editor or crossroad.
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Rabbidfan236
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Post by Rabbidfan236 »

Still, I think having to pay to unlock content feels too restrictive. I would prefer to just pay one price for the whole game instead of being nickel-and-dimed to death.
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Swords761
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Post by Swords761 »

Thank GOD for Spark Time being removed, I knew this would be the downfall of the game and I'm glad they realized it needed to go.
The pay for content part is fine and Gameglobe worked for some time on that model, since you can now have an enjoyable experience lasting more than 20 minutes without being forced to pay anything.
Maybe now I'll actually consider playing the game...
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TeeheeLP
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Post by TeeheeLP »

Well, you can choose to pay via ingame currency or real money. (Except for the new Zombie Pack for some reason, afaik) Though it seems to take forever to gain enough ingame currency to buy a new pack.
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bionicnacho
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Post by bionicnacho »

If only I had somewhere to play it...
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Wowfunhappy
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Post by Wowfunhappy »

I've been meaning to try Project Spark for a while, but it will have to wait until I get home from college where I have a powerful enough desktop to run the game well.

So, is playing other people's levels completely free now?

Also, how are the physics? That was always my problem with gameglobe… I was actually so turned off by the jumping physics that I never bothered to try out design mode, so I have no idea if I would have liked it.
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Nazmus
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Post by Nazmus »

Jumping, I can't remember. I played it very early on when it was still in private beta. It was laggy on my not so powerful laptop from 4 years ago. So I can't say how good the jumping is. But I here's the potential problem for you...maybe. I think this game requires you to have an Xbox account (even on the Windows version), and you need Windows 8.1 because it is a Windows Store app. I remember you told me a couple of years ago via twitter that you don't have steam for xbox account because of your philosophy of owning games DRM free and free of social integration. While Xbox games for Windows 8 don't require you to sign in with your Xbox account, Project Spark might because the whole concept is UGC.
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Wowfunhappy
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Post by Wowfunhappy »

I own plenty of DRM games, I just try to get DRM free stuff whenever I can.

What I HATE are games that make me run separate clients, like Steam, Origin, etc. If it's built into the OS like the Windows Store, I don't really care, although I still prefer DRM-less stuff.
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Rabbidfan236
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Post by Rabbidfan236 »

It does require an Xbox account. It forced me to make one before I could play the game.

I don't even have an Xbox.
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Nazmus
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Post by Nazmus »

Okay, I completely agree with you that requiring clients to run games is really a bad user experience, EXCEPT when it comes to steam. If there is one exception to the rule and one company that deserves this exception it is Valve and its Steam client.

John, let me give you some awesome arguments for why I prefer Steam. First of all, when it comes to any other clients like Origin or the now defunct Games for Windows Live, I hate it. BUT, if I am given the option of getting a game on Steam or a DRM free version, I will choose Steam, and here's why.

The big reason is that the benefits of Steam outweigh its cost by a wide margin. And I mean wide. (For me, only; I'm not trying to convince anyone to use Steam)

0) For may games, if you buy the game, you get Mac, Windows, and Linux versions.

1) Steam stores my hundreds of gigabytes of game files in the cloud. I can install a game when I want to play it and remove the cache any time. I don't have a huge hard drive to store the hundreds of games I own. Steam stores them for me and I have instant access to my games.

2) Silent auto-update for all my games. I don't need to download a ton of updates after I install them or manually check for updates from the game's vendor. Steam updates my game in the background quietly. It is a huge convenience. Oh, and when I install a game, the latest version of the game installs. I don't need to download additional patches after the initial install.

3) Convenient install. No need to hunt down setup files and manually install stuff. Games are one-click install. I can install as many games as I wan all at the same time. Steam does that silently in the background.

4) No product keys. Nuff said

5) For most games there is no activations or install limits. You can install your games on as many PCs as you want. (There are exceptions for a handful of games that are own by greedy big-name corporation, but I don't buy such games)

6) Family sharing. You can share your whole library of games with five users and on 10 PCs. You can deactivate any users or PC at any time.

7) This is a big one for me. I can install all my games to my external hard drive with steam AND unplug my hard drive and plug it in to any PC and play the games without installing them again! This can't be done for most games you get standalone. Whenever I reinstall Windows or move to another PC, I don't have to reinstall my games! It is awesome!

8) All games have a community hub. This is huge. This is not like your old Farmville Facebook integration. This is like Atmosphir's forums. Each game get their own forums, place for community members to share screenshots or videos, and create game guides! This feature is social done right! It focuses on games and the community of the game.

9) in-game screenshots. I can use Steams screenshot feature to take screenshots at any point in the game and have it automatically saved in my local collection grouped by games. I can, optionally, share the screenshots with one click to the game's community hub.

10) Game achievements and traiding cards. I like these. It's fun!

As you can see, Steam is an exception. The benefits it gives me is so much, that I am willing to give Steam a few megabytes of my RAM to run in the background while my game is running.

Other game clients are nothing but greedy corporation's way to make you use their service. I don't buy new EA game because Origin is so annoying and restrictive. Origin doesn't offer me the benefits that Steam does. No other game clients offer what Steam does. There are things that can be done right or done wrong. Steam is done right.

Cheers!

Naz
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