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Are You A Good Person?

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Are You A Good Person?

Post by Entity » February 21st, 2014, 12:48 am

Would you consider Hitler a good person?

What about you, would you consider yourself a good person? (I certainly feel like a good person)

If we compare ourselves to the 10 commandments...

One of them is be honest. Don't lie, even a white lie is a lie, don't cheat, don't be deceptive, don't give half truths (half the truth is just the same as a lie) etc... just tell the truth! Have you ever told a lie? (I've told tons) That makes you a liar.

Okay another one is don't steal stuff from other people. Pirating music/software is stealing, slipping a candy bar in your pocket is stealing... ever done any of that? (I certainly have, some stuff I'm pretty shamed to admit) That makes you a thief.

Don't commit adultery. Okay that seems pretty straightforward, just don't sleep around and have sex outside marriage right? I thought I was actually doing good on this one but then... But check out Matthew 5:28. Basically says even lusting after some chick (and I'm sure know what I mean) is just as bad as committing adultery. That really hit me hard (being a guy...). That makes you an adulterer.

Don't kill people. Again, I've never killed anyone right? (And I sure hope none of you have ;P) But Matthew 5:21-22 says hating someone, or just being angry at them for selfish reasons is just as bad as murder.

Don't take the Lord's name in vain. His name is "Jesus," "Christ," "Lord," "God," ever said one of those when you stubbed your toe? That's what this is talking about. The Bible says that's Blasphemy.

Anyway that's just half of the ten commandments. So far you're a Lying, Thieving, Murdering, Blaspheming, Adulterer at heart. And you have to face God on judgement day.



Imagine you are standing in front of a judge, GUILTY of serious crime. All the evidence has been presented and there is no doubt of your guilt. Your apologies and good works cannot erase your crimes; therefore you must be punished. The fine for your crime is $250,000 and you have no money.

The judge is about to pass sentence when someone you don't even know rushes in and pays your fine for you! The court accepts the money and declares that you are free to go.

That is exactly what God did for you on the cross 2000 years ago.

Romans 5:8 "But God showed his love for us, in that, while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

Jesus loved you so much that he paid the penalty for your sin, so you wouldn't have to! God has provided a way of escape. And that is through the gospel of Jesus Christ.

All you have to do is repent, and give your life to him. Realize that there is no way you can work your way to heaven or somehow be "good enough" to earn heaven. Salvation is a free gift.

Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by GRACE you are saved through faith and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: NOT of works, lest any man should boast."

Trust in Jesus, like you would trust a parachute if you were jumping out of an airplane. You wouldn't just believe in the parachute, you would put it on (trust it) and jump (act on it). That is how we must put our faith and trust in Jesus as our only hope of heaven.

Today with all your heart, turn away from your sin, and surrender your life to Jesus Christ. Please don't put it off. You may die today and then it will be too late. Put your faith and trust in Him today.

You don't have to take my word for it though, go read the Bible for yourself.
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Post by Phantomboy » February 21st, 2014, 9:54 am

As someone who is no longer very religious, my thoughts on rules, pillars, commandments and restrictions are as follows: The core reason for most religions is to inspire it's followers to lead a good life, rather that be lavish or fasting, correct? In doing so, it kind of becomes the religions obligation to instil some rules that will influence people to lead a good life.

However, you have to keep in mind that these rules were often written by scribes and authors, people very subject to their own culture. Even if your religion believes that these words were said directly from a deity (which is perfectly fine and I fully accept that it may) and simply scribed, carved or written by a human - they are still going to have some manipulation in their wording, and even if that isn't the case and the omnipotent being directly wrote them onto the final tome. As the case was with the Catholic bible, you have all these commandments, but they are all in Hebrew. It is up to the translators to translate them, and make them culturally understandable to the language they are translated into. Especially because times change, leading a good life in 27-29 AD, Israel, is very different than leading a good life in 2014 AD, in the modern western culture. Of course some core beliefs will carry over, and to follow ones teachings is a decision for an individual. Plus that, setting a rather high bar with leading a good life could encourage you to do you best, no matter what and that is wonderful.

On the flip-side of that, if you find the commandments place the bar so out of reach that it discourages you from even attempting to live by them, well then they haven't really done their job, have they? No matter what religion you follow, or set of ideals you prescribe to - if they themselves are hindering you and causing ire, perhaps it would be best to look at what those requirements were trying to say in their own language, for their own culture and look to find equivalents in the modern era. Plus, I have to hand it to many of the different churches I've visited - as a lot of religions now a days offer a course or a service of essentially sitting with a group of people and discussing what the religious text means to them and how it should guide our life today.

In the end of the day, rather you believe in a all powerful being or not - if you are kind to others around you, apologise if you make mistakes, and make it your duty to help others regularly; that must count for something.
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Post by ThatOneFox » February 21st, 2014, 10:06 am

Personally I am not religious, but the bible does teach some good things. It's human nature to occasionally go against some of the 10 commandments, but if overall you have been good to people, helped out when you can and just are generally nice to people, I would classify you as a good person. And if there is a god, and he DOES love everyone, I think going against the 10 commandments once or twice would be excusable from your list of good things.
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Post by Miniike » February 21st, 2014, 10:41 am

Bravo sir!
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Post by ThatOneFox » February 21st, 2014, 10:43 am

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Post by Sebastian Lawe » February 21st, 2014, 11:28 am

Now, lets bring some hard points, as even with clear cut instructions, they may not always work.
  • To be an actor requires lying. You have to be who you are not. Undercover cops also have to lie in order to catch criminals (the bad guys), so they're liars?
  • Robin hood was a thief, but he did it for the good of the poor.
  • Wait, you mean you have to go against natural instincts of attraction? I can see not sleeping with people before marriage, but going against what our body forces us to feel? Is that possible? Its what ensures we reproduce and don't die off.
  • In terms of murder, there care cases where its life or death. If I'm about to be killed by other people, the ten commandments basically say to let the people kill me. I don't fully trust in an afterlife. Another note too. Children must also be very murderous, as they often get angry at their parents for grounding them, or telling them what to do.
  • I can get not taking the Lords name in vain. I understand that is a respect thing (though I sometimes have to say it in vain if I'm acting).
In relation to myself.

  • I love acting. I have to say things that aren't true, and sometimes play the villain who says terrible things. I must act as though what I say is true to me.
  • (skipped)
  • By the bibles terms, I guess I'm an adulterer. Though, I'd call it natural instinct. Humans are just highly intelligent and superficial animals. If we didn't naturally lust over the opposite sex, we would never have a reason to reproduce, and we would die off as a species. I can't help but be attracted to the opposite sex, no matter how much I resent it. It seems simpler to not use people purely for their body, and to respect people.
  • While I don't kill people, I have gotten mad at people for selfish reasons. Eg: telling people to be quiet while I study, to stop bugging me, to stop doing "XYZ" to me, not to turn off my computer, not to touch my stuff, not to steal my stuff, to give my "XYZ" back, not to use my computer without permission, don't touch that again you could have died (that would be selfish as you care for the person, and would hurt to see them go). Which means, I've committed something close to murder based on things other people did to me, and my stuff, even if they provoked/invoked it.
Already, the 5 commandments presented make me feel like an abomination to mankind. No book should do that to a person.
I personally hold no regard to the ten commandments. I was never raised to the bible, and follow a more specific list.
  1. Be honest to others. However, in failing to do that, don’t talk in spite behind their back.
  2. Don't steal from people. It may be all they can afford.
  3. Don’t seek people simply for their body. Respect their thoughts, and don’t pressure them into things they don’t want to do.
  4. Don’t kill people, unless they themselves are attempting to enact the same fate to you. You only have one life to live.
  5. Don't be angry at others because of your own actions.
  6. Love your others without prejudice.
  7. My home is your home.
  8. Agree to disagree when necessary.
  9. All people are to be treated the same, regardless of race, gender, etc. Mental conditions are waived.
  10. Hep those who are in need.
  11. Treat others how you would like to be treated.

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Post by Entity » February 21st, 2014, 11:33 am

Phantomboy]Especially because times change wrote:
I agree that cultures change, and that the way you'd lead a good life would be different, but the word of God is still relevant. Just because it's been 2000 years doesn't mean it's okay to lie, or to steal. (I think that's what you meant?)

Phantomboy]On the flip-side of that wrote:
Exactly, it should be discouraging. There's absolutely no way we can be "good enough" to get to heaven. God is perfect, and heaven is a perfect place. That's why Jesus died on the cross; God took our sins and punished Jesus for them. Once we realize that, we should be so thankful that we now have a reason to follow God's commandments. We'll never be perfect, and the Bible says we'll never be perfect.

Heaven is a free gift.

Phantomboy]In the end of the day wrote:
If there was no God, and there was no heaven and hell... what difference would it make? You could run around stealing anything and everything you wanted, you could lie and cheat and have all the stuff in the world, and why would that be wrong? Who's to say that's immoral?

StreetLights wrote:Personally I am not religious,


Just out of curiosity, are you an athiest?

StreetLights]but if overall you have been good to people wrote:
But that's not how God classifies people. The Bible says his standard is perfection.

StreetLights]And if there is a god wrote:
Imagine I was on trial for murdering a man. I was found guilty, and I say "But judge, I've only murdered one person, come on! Other than that, I'm a really nice guy! I've given money to the poor, my good outweighs my bad!" Is he gonna let me go? No!

Unless he's thoroughly corrupt, he's going to punish me for my wrongs regardless of what good I've done.

When you stand before God on judgement day, he's going to go through every sin you've ever committed. Just because you've also done good doesn't change the fact that you've broken his law.

God can't let sinners into Heaven. He loves me and he loves you, but he hates sin. In fact, He loved us so much that he sent His son to die in our place; he took our sins and put them on Jesus, and punished him for them on the cross.

EDIT

Sebane]To be an actor requires lying. You have to be who you are not.[/quote]

How is acting lying? Everyone knows that's not really you wrote:
Robin hood was a thief, but he did it for the good of the poor.


The Bible says stealing is wrong, no exceptions. The Bible also says that even if you have a cruel, unfair leader, to obey him, to pay your taxes, etc.. as long as he doesn't tell you to sin. Robin Hood is a great story, but what he is doing is immoral.

[quote="Sebane]Wait"]

That's not what The Bible says at all. It says 1) don't lust and 2) don't commit adultery. Jesus lived his whole life without lusting, but he was a human male and he was physically attracted to females. He had hormones, he had male genitalia, he had feelings, maybe he even had a crush on a neighbor girl when he was a young man. But since he was perfect, he controlled his feelings.

There's nothing wrong with romance or attraction, you just shouldn't lust.

[quote="Sebane]In terms of murder"]

Well there's a balance, but nowhere does the Bible say you shouldn't stand up for yourself.

[quote="Sebane]Another note too. Children must also be very murderous"]

I agree :)

[quote="Sebane]By the bibles terms"]

Again, there's a difference between lust and attraction. God created romantic feelings, and they're a good thing, at the right time and place.

It's sorta like words. God created words, and they can be a very good thing at the right time and place, but if you lie for example, that's a sin.

[quote="Sebane]Which means"]

Again I agree. I have as well.

[quote="Sebane]Already"]

That's because you are. I am too. Every human being is, and the Bible says this very clearly. We deserve to go to Hell! If God's standard is perfection, why would we go to heaven?

[quote="Sebane]I personally hold no regard to the ten commandments. I was never raised to the bible"]

These are some pretty solid principles, and there's nothing wrong with them, but where do they come from? Why follow them if there is no God? (which I assume you believe, if His principles aren't good enough)
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Post by ThatOneFox » February 21st, 2014, 11:38 am

See this is one of the reasons I am not religious. Of course murder is different, murder is inexcusable unless in self-defence, but if perfection is the standard for getting into heaven, it's going to be pretty empty up there.
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Post by Entity » February 21st, 2014, 11:54 am

StreetLights wrote:See this is one of the reasons I am not religious. Of course murder is different, murder is inexcusable unless in self-defence, but if perfection is the standard for getting into heaven, it's going to be pretty empty up there.


Yes! Exactly. There will be 0 humans in heaven, and 1 God and that's it.

Except...

Heaven is a free gift.

Or at least it can be. You just have to accept it.

I'm an abominable person according to God's standards, and I deserve to go to Hell. And I would. But I gave my life to Jesus, and I trust him, and I have faith in him. When Jesus died on the cross, God was punishing him for my sins. So now my sins are gone, I've been set free, on judgement day God will see me as sinless (kudos to Jesus).

I'm going to heaven when I die.
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Post by Phantomboy » February 21st, 2014, 11:56 am

Entity wrote:Exactly, it should be discouraging. There's absolutely no way we can be "good enough" to get to heaven. God is perfect, and heaven is a perfect place. That's why Jesus died on the cross; God took our sins and punished Jesus for them. Once we realize that, we should be so thankful that we now have a reason to follow God's commandments. We'll never be perfect, and the Bible says we'll never be perfect.

Heaven is a free gift.


I am confused by the statement "There's absolutely no way we can be "good enough" to get to heaven." as to what to take from that. So, are you saying that by nature humans going to be unable to be "good enough" to pass on to some form of nirvana, moksha or other? Or do you mean, that no mediocre level of morality can be considered acceptable and you must strive for the best that we can do?

Entity wrote:And I would. But I gave my life to Jesus, and I trust him, and I have faith in him.


Sorry, you hadn't posted that when I hit post.. I think I know what you were referring to now.

If there was no God, and there was no heaven and hell... what difference would it make? You could run around stealing anything and everything you wanted, you could lie and cheat and have all the stuff in the world, and why would that be wrong? Who's to say that's immoral?


Yes, technically you could - and you technically you still can. However, to me it seems pretty far out their to assume that the only reason people aren't currently doing wrong deeds is because of religion. Laws, governments, police and sympathy are all very influential factors of how we behave. In fact, today's society is so specifically catered to play off of the innate human desire for acceptance.
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Post by ThatOneFox » February 21st, 2014, 12:00 pm

Entity wrote:
These are some pretty solid principles, and there's nothing wrong with them, but where do they come from? Why follow them if there is no God? (which I assume you believe, if His principles aren't good enough)


Why, because I know as a human being to respect others and to be kind. As an atheist, why should I follow the commandments if I believe there is no god? There's no actual law against being horrible to people, yet I am not. Ask yourself that.
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Post by Entity » February 21st, 2014, 12:01 pm

Phantomboy wrote:I am confused by the statement "There's absolutely no way we can be "good enough" to get to heaven." as to what to take from that. So, are you saying that by nature humans going to be unable to be "good enough" to pass on to some form of nirvana, moksha or other? Or do you mean, that no mediocre level of morality can be considered acceptable and you must strive for the best that we can do?


By nature, humans are sinful. There is no way we can get to heaven on our own. No matter how hard we try to be good, no matter how much we think we succeed, we are sinful and we aren't perfect. Not even Ghandi was good enough. He got mad at his brother and disrespected his mother when he was a kid too.

Phantomboy]Yes wrote:very [/b]influential factors of how we behave. In fact, today's society is so specifically catered to play off of the innate human desire for acceptance.


Well that's true, they do good things, but instead of doing them for the right reason (because they're so thankful that they want to make God happy) they do them for selfish reasons (they want to be accepted, they don't want to go to jail, they want to look good etc...)
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Post by Phantomboy » February 21st, 2014, 12:06 pm

Well that's true, they do good things, but instead of doing them for the right reason (because they're so thankful that they want to make God happy) they do them for selfish reasons (they want to be accepted, they don't want to go to jail, they want to look good etc...)


You know, and call me out on this because I'm sure this sounds horrible. I am not sure that is necessarily a bad thing. I mean, if someone is giving a helping hand, volunteering or saving someone - why should I question their reasoning. Like, if someone gave every bit of their extra money to charity - simply because they vainly think that doing so makes them look better, it's not as if their money has been tainted, like those in need are still being helped. I don't feel like I am in any place of power to define "the right reason" over the wrong reason. I think, as humans, we should just be nice to each other, to make each other happy.
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Post by ThatOneFox » February 21st, 2014, 12:09 pm

Entity wrote:
Well that's true, they do good things, but instead of doing them for the right reason (because they're so thankful that they want to make God happy) they do them for selfish reasons (they want to be accepted, they don't want to go to jail, they want to look good etc...)


If this were true, why would I give to charity, play at charity events, give to homeless people on the street? It's my money/services, why should I give it away? Because there are people less fortunate than myself.

Also, as someone who does not believe in god, does this mean I myself am going to hell?
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Post by Entity » February 21st, 2014, 12:12 pm

StreetLights wrote:Why, because I know as a human being to respect others and to be kind. As an atheist, why should I follow the commandments if I believe there is no god? There's no actual law against being horrible to people, yet I am not. Ask yourself that.


If you step in the street (no pun intended :P ) and say to yourself "I don't believe in vehicles, I don't believe in vehicles" you'll still die.

God exists, and it was he who created us with our morals.

Phantomboy wrote:You know, and call me out on this because I'm sure this sounds horrible. I am not sure that is necessarily a bad thing. I mean, if someone is giving a helping hand, volunteering or saving someone - why should I question their reasoning. Like, if someone gave every bit of their extra money to charity - simply because they vainly think that doing so makes them look better, it's not as if their money has been tainted, like those in need are still being helped. I don't feel like I am in any place of power to define "the right reason" over the wrong reason. I think, as humans, we should just be nice to each other, to make each other happy.


Well true, you're right. I think it's great that people donate to charity and things like that, and that society expects them to act at least halfway decent (no murderers!). Real people's lives have been saved, and that's an amazing thing. I wasn't trying to diminish that, although I realize it sounded like I was.

It's not the acts themselves that are wrong, it's their motives. Selfishness.

And if you use societies morals... Well, societies morals are constantly slipping, I think everyone can agree. Movies are getting cruder, beaches are getting nuder etc...

StreetLights wrote:Also, as someone who does not believe in god, does this mean I myself am going to hell?


Have you given your life to Christ? Have you repented? Have you put your faith in him, and let him wash away your sins?

The answer to those questions is the answer to yours.
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Post by Phantomboy » February 21st, 2014, 12:14 pm

StreetLights wrote:Also, as someone who does not believe in god, does this mean I myself am going to hell?


Street, I would say that heavily depends on, how you live your life and what religious values you are considering when thinking of the "Requirements for haven"

I don't mean to sound pedantic, and to offend someone is certainly not my motive here. However, in looking at different religions, Buddhism, Hinduism, Catholicism and ect.. the requirements set somewhere around a devotion to positive behaviour during the course of your life - to paint with very broad stokes..
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Post by Entity » February 21st, 2014, 12:20 pm

[quote="Phantomboy]Street"]

But we don't get to decide the requirements for heaven, God does.

[quote="Phantomboy]I don't mean to sound pedantic"]

That's the problem with other religions, they try to tell you you can work hard enough and be good enough to get to heaven, when if you look in the Bible that's clearly not true! We can't make it on our own. We need God. There are countless verses that say you can not earn salvation. It has to be given to you by God:

Eph. 2:8-9 - "For by grace you are saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast."

Here's more verses if you feel like looking them up: Rom. 4:6-7, Rom. 10:3, Phil. 3:9, Rom. 3:22, Titus 3:5, Acts 4:12 (and there's tons more).

The only way you can get saved is through Jesus Christ. He said: "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me."(John 14:6) That's why "...while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." (Rom. 5:8-9)
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Post by Phantomboy » February 21st, 2014, 12:26 pm

Entity wrote:It's not the acts themselves that are wrong, it's their motives. Selfishness.

Though, that is what the topic of my post essentially was. Am I to be the one to condemn, or even discuss if someone is reaching a predetermined line of acceptable selflessness when they drop a couple cents into a cup of a person in need. To discuss such motives is to imply a since of authority or even simply knowledge enough on the person to say rather they are in the clear or not.

I do not assert myself to know what is right or wrong over anyone, I won't force my on ideals on anyone. In fact, if I can - I will word things vague enough to suggest that the person looks to their own values to decide. I have no authority over anyone's lifes, nor enough information to even suggest their fate, even if I did I doubt me telling them would be 1) appreciated and 2) heeded.
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Post by Entity » February 21st, 2014, 12:32 pm

Phantomboy wrote:Though, that is what the topic of my post essentially was. Am I to be the one to condemn, or even discuss if someone is reaching a predetermined line of acceptable selflessness when they drop a couple cents into a cup of a person in need. To discuss such motives is to imply a since of authority or even simply knowledge enough on the person to say rather they are in the clear or not.

I do not assert myself to know what is right or wrong over anyone, I won't force my on ideals on anyone. In fact, if I can - I will word things vague enough to suggest that the person looks to their own values to decide. I have no authority over anyone's lifes, nor enough information to even suggest their fate, even if I did I doubt me telling them would be 1) appreciated and 2) heeded.


No no, I completely agree with you. The Bible says "judge not lest you be judged." If someone gives to the poor I don't tell them "hah, you're not saved so you're a selfish insensitive prick." I think you'd agree, you just don't do that.

And I don't force my views on anyone either. My opinions are my opinions, and I fully respect other people's opinions.

But the things I've said above (everyone is a sinner, we're helpless on our own, we need Jesus to save us) are backed up by the Bible.
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Post by Phantomboy » February 21st, 2014, 12:39 pm

I agree, in fact - even my strictest convictions, I hold loose enough to know that not everyone thinks that. I will even strongly respect someone values that directly contradict my own, no matter how correct I think my beliefs are. I will often appreciate the motives of a person who holds very deeply to their values even if those, by nature, are against my own. They are their own person :) I have no need to make them believe what I do, I am far to passive for that anyway :P
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