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Ucsb Shootings Prompt #yesallwomen Trend, Outrage Over Misogyny

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tta
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Ucsb Shootings Prompt #yesallwomen Trend, Outrage Over Misogyny

Post by tta »

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DvChayz
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Post by DvChayz »

why are you mocking the feminists when you could be mocking the fedora tipper who killed 6 people because he was rejected
tta
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Post by tta »

well thats true but none of the parties involved really deserve praise. *tip*
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Phantomboy
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Post by Phantomboy »

tta, the title "Femails = Targitid Individuwals" could very very easily be taken as insensitive and prompts arguments. Please, be considerate when discussing serious topics and discussions. The title has been changed to match the article you link to.
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papaya
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Post by papaya »

I'm gonna post this here while we're at it

personally I think that we shouldn't use this as a platform for anything.
columbine and various other school shootings are regularly used as evidence against guns (which I wholly agree with), but why ride the wave of a national tragedy to preach your own message? It's disgusting.
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TheLastLink
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Post by TheLastLink »

Phantomboy wrote:tta, the title "Femails = Targitid Individuwals" could very very easily be taken as insensitive and prompts arguments. Please, be considerate when discussing serious topics and discussions. The title has been changed to match the article you link to.
What are you talking about? Insensitive to whom?

As for the murderer, he was an entitled, self-important, egocentric brat who was never told the word no in his entire life. I have no sympathy for him.

I also don't have any sympathy for those who would use this madman's to further an agenda just because they fault society for the tragedy and not the monster who was actually responsible.
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totaldile
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Post by totaldile »

Personally, I'm a little disgusted by the responses to this incident (not on this thread, I'm referring to the YouTube comments and tumblr spam).

You agree with this psychopath? You're congratulating him? Why?
Why on Earth would you condone murder because some idiot wasn't getting any? Grow the fuck up.


I wrote a poem about this incident.
2014, Sunday
The 24th of May
A man came
And took six lives away

But not all men are like that.

He was a virgin, never been kissed
And women were to blame
A gentleman, he claimed
To be
"I wish girls were attracted to me,"
But at age 22, he brought two guns
And let the 'Day of Retribution' come.

But not all men are like that.

"This is an isolated case," they say.
MRA, saving face.
"The young man was so brilliant and it's sad he didn't get away.
I feel no pity for the victims nor there families."
"And I really feel bad for him. Rejection is agony."
"I don't blame guns.
I blame blondes for this one."
"See girls, this is what you get
When you treat nice guys like shit."
"This ***** could've saved his life if only one of you dumb cunts could of given him some sweetness."
So go the YouTube comments.

But not all men are like that.

2011, December, waking up in a strange house, a girl is sexually assaulted.
17 January 2012, her rapist questions her about a police investigation. When she refuses to talk, he threatens to shoot her, dead.

But not all men are like that.

2013, January 4. Only fourteen.
Shaniesha Forbes refuses to have an abortion.
Christian Ferdinand, with a pillow, smothers her to death.

But not all men are like that.

5 June, 2013.
Aquilla Flood's ex-boyfriend sneaks into her room just before 7:30am.
He shoots her, dead.

But not all men are like that.

April 23, 2014.
Baljeet Kour rejects her friend's marriage proposal.
He stabs her 30 times. Dead.

But not all men are like that.

April 25, 2014.
Maren Sanchez rejects an invitation to junior prom from a boy. He stabs her in the school hallways. Dead.

But not all men are like that.

Every 9 seconds in the US a woman is beaten or assaulted.

But not all men are like that.

Around the world, 1 in 3 women have been beaten, coerced into sex, or otherwise abused during their lifetimes.

But not all men are like that.

Domestic Violence is the leading cause of injury to women - more than car accidents, muggings and rapes combined.

But not all men are like that.

“I made you 100 cookies – one of them has cyanide in it, though,” you say.
“I’m scared. I don’t want any,” I say.
“But they’re not all the cookies are like that!” you say.
Why should I risk my life so I don’t hurt your feelings?

Because not all men are like that.

We teach our children not to approach dogs.
“They could hurt you, or even kill you,” you say.
But not all dogs are like that, are they?
Dogs maul. Dogs kill. Dogs savage.
Unless you know the dog thoroughly, you’re taught not to approach it.
Men hurt. Men rape. Men kill.

But not all men are like that.

Some men truly are genuine, kind, caring and respectful.
Some of them do not view women as objects, or sex as something they deserve merely for living, or being a ‘nice guy’.
But I will continue to live in fear of abuse.
Because, unfortunately…

Not all men are like that.

Edit: Oh jeez good job Tumblr mess up that formatting. I'll fix this later. Every line with em is in italics.
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papaya
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Post by papaya »

to use your cookie analogy (because the rest is a bit ridiculous)
its more like if you baked 1 million cookies for someone
told them that 75% were delicious choc chip
and that 24% were raisin, which they don't really like
there's a little under 1% that are something disgusting like mustard or Vegemite or something
and then there's one, just one, that's laced with cyanide.

and it's that one cookie that's the Elliot Rodger.

I'd like to know where this 1 in 3 statistic comes from because abuse is a very broad term.
if I tell a woman she's fat, have I just abused her?
If I sleep with a woman and she decides afterwards she didnt really want it after all, have I abused her?

but I digress
please dont use this incident as another part of your 'all men are pigs' mantra
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Post by Rabbidfan236 »

This is the 21st century and we are still freaking out about supposed differences between men and women

what the hell
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totaldile
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Post by totaldile »

papaya wrote:to use your cookie analogy (because the rest is a bit ridiculous)
its more like if you baked 1 million cookies for someone
told them that 75% were delicious choc chip
and that 24% were raisin, which they don't really like
there's a little under 1% that are something disgusting like mustard or Vegemite or something
and then there's one, just one, that's laced with cyanide.

and it's that one cookie that's the Elliot Rodger.

I'd like to know where this 1 in 3 statistic comes from because abuse is a very broad term.
if I tell a woman she's fat, have I just abused her?
If I sleep with a woman and she decides afterwards she didnt really want it after all, have I abused her?

but I digress
please dont use this incident as another part of your 'all men are pigs' mantra
Well thing is, looking at all the news clippings I quoted, it's not just Elliott Rodger who's the cyanide cookie. Those were just the result of a quick google search, but I'm sure you could find more :/. So, in a million cookies, there's more than just one cyanide cookie.

As for the three-in-one statistic, I have unfortunately lost the Tumblr post from which I acquired it, but I do believe it was sourced. Doesn't do much for my side of the argument, but eh.

If you tell a women she's fat I wouldn't call that abuse but that's still a pretty damned dickish thing to do.
If you sleep with a woman, and she decides later she didn't want it, well of course not. The deed is done. If she wanted to, but changed her mind before you performed the act, and you then forced her to go through with it, that would be abuse.

But I assure you I'm not trying to to say I hate all men, and that all men suck.
I'm merely trying to say that because men such as Elliott Rodger exist, I would rather tell a male I have a boyfriend rather than risk saying no, simply because I'm scared I'll bite into the cyanide cookie. Because men like Elliott Rodger exist, I am afraid of men, like I am afraid of dogs because there are dogs who have mauled and killed.

Does this mean I hate all dogs? No! I love dogs, and I'm intending to buy a Pug myself at some point in life.
Nor do I hate men - I know there are definitely men are there who are sweet and not murderers, but because there are men like that, I have to be afraid :/.

I tried to express this in the last few stanzas. Apologies if the message did not get across.
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Post by totaldile »

Rabbidfan236 wrote:This is the 21st century and we are still freaking out about supposed differences between men and women

what the hell
That's because there are a lot of differences and double standards - both on males and females.
Men, in general, earn 20% more money than women for performing the same job in the country where I live.
Women tend to get custody something like 80% of the time.

http://night-of-no-stars.tumblr.com/pos ... irl-rising
I found this, too.
...see? Not equal. Ergo, I'd like to strive towards equality.
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Pliskin
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Post by Pliskin »

What does this feminist garbage have to do with Elliot Rodger? Stop.

I really hate people like this guy who assume they deserve equality in terms of relationships with others. Just because you're in college doesn't mean you get to have sex. Women do not exist just so you can have a girlfriend. Those "lucky" guys who aren't twenty-two year old virgins have relationships because they're outgoing, likable, and just so happened to have stumbled into a right match. Girls aren't just going to throw themselves at you. If you see someone and think "Damn, that's fine," you need to be the aggressive one, not them. And if all of those women deny you, you need to face the facts and realize that there might be something about you that needs to be changed. Or, maybe they're just not a good match. But it's pretty obvious to me that Mr. Rodger here had the former issue: he thought he was entitled to having sex with girls and he probably had a personality that made him a huge turn-off.

And then he went and killed a bunch of people because he blamed women for his sorrows, when in reality all of the pain and suffering was his own doing. He ruined the lives of innocent people because he was a self-inflicted virgin. Disgusting.

What's even more atrocious is that he looks like such a smug bastard in his final video. He thought he was some kind of big deal, killing women because they caused him "unfair suffering." But anybody with common, rational sense can see that Elliot Rodger was just an attention-seeking man-child who couldn't get a girlfriend because he was a poisonous social outcast. The only people he'll ever manage to impress are his fellow sexually-frustrated brethren who can't even talk to a woman before they get "friend-zoned."
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Post by Rabbidfan236 »

totaldile wrote:I know there are definitely men are there who are sweet and not murderers, but because there are men like that, I have to be afraid :/.
So then you have to be afraid of women also, because there are some women that have murdered people.
You also have to be afraid of cats because some become provoked and scratch or claw at you.
You also have to be afraid of cars because some drivers lose control and run into pedestrians.
You also have to be afraid of boats because some boats sink.
You also have to be afraid of trains because some trains derail.
You also have to be afraid of planes because some planes crash.
You also have to be afraid of swimming because some water contains deadly bacteria.
You also have to be afraid of cell phones because some people get cancer from them.
You also have to be afraid of walking because some floors are slippery and can cause you to fall and hurt yourself.
You also have to be afraid of eating because some people get food poisoning.
You also have to be afraid of going outside because some people get torn in half by a gorilla.
You also have to be afraid of toilets because some snakes can swim through the plumbing.
You also have to be afraid of breathing because some air contains poisonous gases.
You also have to be afraid of living because some people die of heath attacks.
You also have to be afraid of being afraid because some fears lead to mental instability and cause people to do stupid things like jump off a cliff to escape the clown that just wants to show them his balloon-giraffe-making skills.
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Post by totaldile »

Pliskin wrote:What does this feminist garbage have to do with Elliot Rodger? Stop.

I really hate people like this guy who assume they deserve equality in terms of relationships with others. Just because you're in college doesn't mean you get to have sex. Women do not exist just so you can have a girlfriend. Those "lucky" guys who aren't twenty-two year old virgins have relationships because they're outgoing, likable, and just so happened to have stumbled into a right match. Girls aren't just going to throw themselves at you. If you see someone and think "Damn, that's fine," you need to be the aggressive one, not them. And if all of those women deny you, you need to face the facts and realize that there might be something about you that needs to be changed. Or, maybe they're just not a good match. But it's pretty obvious to me that Mr. Rodger here had the former issue: he thought he was entitled to having sex with girls and he probably had a personality that made him a huge turn-off.

And then he went and killed a bunch of people because he blamed women for his sorrows, when in reality all of the pain and suffering was his own doing. He ruined the lives of innocent people because he was a self-inflicted virgin. Disgusting.

What's even more atrocious is that he looks like such a smug bastard in his final video. He thought he was some kind of big deal, killing women because they caused him "unfair suffering." But anybody with common, rational sense can see that Elliot Rodger was just an attention-seeking man-child who couldn't get a girlfriend because he was a poisonous social outcast. The only people he'll ever manage to impress are his fellow sexually-frustrated brethren who can't even talk to a woman before they get "friend-zoned."
I agree with all of this! Except, however, the last point.
I can definitely see where you're coming from, but from what you're saying, I believe you think he was insane, and a little bit crazy? Possibly with some huge mental disorder?

Well, I don't really accept that as an excuse for his behaviour, as I know a number of people with 'mental illnesses' who function just fine in society :/.

You're right - the only people he will impress are his brethren. Unfortunately, his brethren exist in society.
That's why I'm scared to walk in the dark, alone that's why I'd rather make excuses that simply say no to a man. Because how am I meant to know when I'm speaking to one of his brethren?
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Post by Pliskin »

I'm not saying he was mentally ill, per say. It's hard for me to describe. You could deem his actions to be rational, but just based on ideas that are completely false. He thought of women as objects existing only to make him feel good, and he thought it should be easy to have sex with them. Neither of those are true and he got frustrated. He wanted to believe that the entire female population had a vendetta against him rather than considering the fact that he was just not an attractive person in the slightest bit.

EDIT: Also, I can sympathize with the fact that you feel the need to be afraid of all men when some are murderers. However, like the others have said, life is pretty much a game of risk. The best way to go about it is to be vigilant and know whether or not guys you have relationships with may or may not be depraved.

Yes, some men are murderers and rapists. But for every psycho out there, there's probably thousands of men who are truly spectacular. Don't miss out on them because a few out of the 7 billion or so people on this planet are killers.

Also, men aren't the only people who murder. Don't even try to argue that.
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Post by totaldile »

Rabbidfan236 wrote:So then you have to be afraid of women also, because there are some women that have murdered people.
You also have to be afraid of cats because some become provoked and scratch or claw at you.
You also have to be afraid of cars because some drivers lose control and run into pedestrians.
You also have to be afraid of boats because some boats sink.
You also have to be afraid of trains because some trains derail.
You also have to be afraid of planes because some planes crash.
You also have to be afraid of swimming because some water contains deadly bacteria.
You also have to be afraid of cell phones because some people get cancer from them.
You also have to be afraid of walking because some floors are slippery and can cause you to fall and hurt yourself.
You also have to be afraid of eating because some people get food poisoning.
You also have to be afraid of going outside because some people get torn in half by a gorilla.
You also have to be afraid of toilets because some snakes can swim through the plumbing.
You also have to be afraid of breathing because some air contains poisonous gases.
You also have to be afraid of living because some people die of heath attacks.
You also have to be afraid of being afraid because some fears lead to mental instability and cause people to do stupid things like jump off a cliff to escape the clown that just wants to show them his balloon-giraffe-making skills.
A lot of this list is ridiculous :/. I'll address the ones with potentially fatal consequences, however, because those ones are in proportion with the potential of murder.

Women. Show me three news articles where a woman has murdered a man for refusing to have sex with her, and I will acknowledge that men need to be afraid of women as well.
Cars? Yes. Or, more specifically, the drivers of those cars, because not all drivers are reliable. I'm certainly not about to get into a car with somebody I don't know and trust.
Boats? Hell yeah. Be afraid of them. Look at the Titanic. However, note that there are safety measures for sinking boats, such as life rafts, and life jackets. Give me some safety measures women can use against men without getting charged for a crime.
Trains? Yeah, I guess. However, a train derailed in my suburb the other day, and no-one got hurt. If you can find me a statistic that says that train derailings kill more people than there have been murders if women by men because they refused them something, then I'll acknowledge this.
You are 1000 times more likely to be in a car crash than a plane crash. I'd like to see some statistics comparing deaths of people who die in plane crashes to deaths of women who are murdered or assaulted by men because they refused to date or have sex with them.
I'm not 100% convinced about the whole cell-phone cancer thing. Cellphones haven't been in use long enough for any studies to have conclusive evidence, so this point is a little hard for either of us to debate.
Swimming? In un-chlorinated waters, hell yes. I had a severe allergic reaction from swimming at the beach twice :/. Some water is seriously polluted. However, you can quite easily tell whether water is or is not dangerous to swim in. You can't exactly do a brief background check before you speak to every male you come across.
Slippery floors? :l. Yeah, you can usually see which floors are slippery. If you can't , then well, be afraid. Be afraid.
Eating? I don't buy chicken or pork from fast food places after my father got severe food poisoning. Be afraid.
I don't really have any idea about toilets, as there are no snakes in New Zealand. I know this is a large problem in rural Australia, though, so I guess be afraid :/.
Breathing? Uh, I feel like is one is sort of ridiculous. I need to breathe to exist. I do not need to have sex to exist.
Afraid of living? What the heck is a health attack?
Having fears is pretty freaky, but I'd like to see some evidence of this happening.
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Post by totaldile »

Pliskin wrote:I'm not saying he was mentally ill, per say. It's hard for me to describe. You could deem his actions to be rational, but just based on ideas that are completely false. He thought of women as objects existing only to make him feel good, and he thought it should be easy to have sex with them. Neither of those are true and he got frustrated. He wanted to believe that the entire female population had a vendetta against him rather than considering the fact that he was just not an attractive person in the slightest bit.
Ah, this is what I'd hoped you'd say :) . Nah, I agree with you pretty much completely on this bit.
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Post by Pliskin »

totaldile wrote: Women. Show me three news articles where a woman has murdered a man for refusing to have sex with her, and I will acknowledge that men need to be afraid of women as well.
There may not be many (and I say not many because there are still a few) cases of murder due to sex, but there are definitely a lot of dangerous women in the world. A man has the exact same right to feel afraid of the opposite sex as you do, although that fear should not be very strong in either genders.
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Post by Rabbidfan236 »

Pliskin wrote:There may not be many (and I say not many because there are still a few) cases of murder due to sex, but there are definitely a lot of dangerous women in the world. A man has the exact same right to feel afraid of the opposite sex as you do, although that fear should not be very strong in either genders.
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totaldile wrote:What the heck is a health attack?
*heart
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Post by totaldile »

Pliskin wrote:There may not be many (and I say not many because there are still a few) cases of murder due to sex, but there are definitely a lot of dangerous women in the world. A man has the exact same right to feel afraid of the opposite sex as you do, although that fear should not be very strong in either genders.
Definitely! A man has the exact same right to feel afraid of the opposite sex; I am in no way trying to say that you don't.

However, I am trying to say that yes, whilst there are dangerous women in the world, there are, at least recently, far more cases of dangerous men attacking, raping and or killing women - if you can find more examples of women killing men over the man rejecting or not having sex with the woman than I listed in the poem I wrote, or even equal it, I'll drop my argument :) .

And as for heart attacks, I'm not sure a heart attack is a consequence of living :/.

In addition, I don't believe that we should ignore issues simply because somebody else has it 'just as bad' or 'worse'. That doesn't mean there isn't a problem.
I'm also not trying to say that dangerous women are not a problem - I've read stories about predatorial women raping young boys, and I agree that it's not good at all! However, I've seen far more stories about women getting killed by men because they rejected the man or refused sex, and that's why I'm prioritising this issue.
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