Atmosphir Is Officially Dead

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TheLastLink
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Postby TheLastLink » January 6th, 2013, 11:05 am

ElectroYoshi wrote:"Halsey didn't murder your beloved atmosphir."

...
Yeah, no.

For one thing, Halsey's the whole reason the game got all that content no one wanted. He basically forced the devs to work in his vision, not Dave's, and that's what killed the community. For another, new content was ALL he focused on, which, need I remind you, is the whole reason the game got so unstable in the first place.

Halsey is completely to blame for Atmosphir's death. That is my final word.

Fail.
Why do you think he suddenly popped up out of nowhere and started "ruining the game"?
Do you know how much profit atmosphir was making?
Zero.
Atmosphir was not making money.
Wow, I wonder why Halsey stepped in? Couldn't have been because he was trying to save his investment or something.
Everybody complained that the new content was for making money.
That is EXACTLY what is was added for. It's completely childish to pretend that Atmosphir would have survived without money.

"They forced the devs to work on his vision, not Dave's"
DAVE'S "VISION" WAS NOT MAKING MONEY.

Atmosphir would have bit the dust a whole lot sooner if Halsey hadn't stepped in.

You let your emotions get in the way of logic and reason.
0/10.

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ElectroYoshi
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Postby ElectroYoshi » January 6th, 2013, 12:26 pm

Do you know how much profit atmosphir was making?
Zero.

Again. No. Players Club cost a lot of money for renewal, $5.99 if I'm remembering correctly. There were a lot of PC members on Atmosphir. I can't remember exactly how many, but there were. Also, people bought Atmos, which also cost money. They got the job done fine is what I'm getting at here.

Wow, I wonder why Halsey stepped in? Couldn't have been because he was trying to save his investment or something.
Well, Halsey wouldn't have had to save his investment had he not been in such deep financial debt and Cameron knows why he was dumb enough to blow off his taxes in the first place...

Everybody complained that the new content was for making money.
That is EXACTLY what is was added for.

You're not wrong here. Really, you're not. That said, there's a difference between actually making money and trying to make money and failing. Halsey did the latter. The Industrial Pack provided the first flow of players outta the game. Granted, it was a weak flow, but it was still there. The Aliens were added relatively quickly thereafter. Which resulted in a stronger, albeit not immensely, flow out of the game. Then Cars came. People did not like the idea of paying to play certain levels, and thus, drove off (Pun lolololololol). After that update, the money Halsey was trying to make was alienated almost entirely.

Good Work, Hals!
Image

It's completely childish to pretend that Atmosphir would have survived without money.
True. But after the immense flow of players out of the game, it wasn't making money, because tue money left along with the community.

"They forced the devs to work on his vision, not Dave's"
DAVE'S "VISION" WAS NOT MAKING MONEY.

...Again, Dave's vision was making money because the community liked it. Halsey's vision made little money because the community did NOT like it.

Atmosphir would have bit the dust a whole lot sooner if Halsey hadn't stepped in.
ARE YOU SERIOUS?!?!? Again, Halsey's vision was ALIENATING the money it was supposed to be MAKING, with every single update. That is neither hyperbole nor metaphor. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE!

You let your emotions get in the way of logic and reason.
0/10.

...Man, I'm irritated.
If you want to believe this, fine, go right ahead. If you want to try to argue this post, fine, but expect me to be entirely unconvinced by it
I need a shot again, that sweet adrenaline.

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tta
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Postby tta » January 6th, 2013, 12:40 pm

Oh, this debate is juicy.

I'm not gonna intervene except for one thing:

ElectroYoshi wrote:"They forced the devs to work on his vision, not Dave's"
DAVE'S "VISION" WAS NOT MAKING MONEY.
...Again, Dave's vision was making money because the community liked it. Halsey's vision made little money because the community did NOT like it.


what

How can you tell what's making money and what's not? Where's your "Secret access key" or whatever to their sales record, or are you just keeping track of who pays for items or club and when they do it? How do you know MiSt's daily revenue?

(just so you know i was being sarcastic)

--EDIT--

Lysander789 wrote:I found the game when I searched around on Edward8bro's YT channel. I found the Atmosphir YT club TTA started (I think). Googled the game. 2 months later, best level creator I've ever played. I still have some of my old drafts though. Good times.


One that I started? I never started a youtube channel for atmosphir, but I did create an external club website and 2 atmosphir montages on yt, if that's what your thinking about.

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Phantomboy
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Postby Phantomboy » January 6th, 2013, 1:41 pm

TheLastLink wrote:Fail.
Why do you think he suddenly popped up out of nowhere and started "ruining the game"?
Do you know how much profit atmosphir was making?
Zero.
Atmosphir was not making money.
Wow, I wonder why Halsey stepped in? Couldn't have been because he was trying to save his investment or something.
Everybody complained that the new content was for making money.
That is EXACTLY what is was added for. It's completely childish to pretend that Atmosphir would have survived without money.

"They forced the devs to work on his vision, not Dave's"
DAVE'S "VISION" WAS NOT MAKING MONEY.

Atmosphir would have bit the dust a whole lot sooner if Halsey hadn't stepped in.

You let your emotions get in the way of logic and reason.
0/10.

Besides being a bit harsh on ElectroYoshi, I actually have to agree with you on this. It seems to be a common misconception that a project can be entirely driven on what the creator wants and never needs to be funded, when the reality is, it can't. Hiring a development team takes money, renting office space takes money, hosting a site takes money and owning a domain takes money- it is only unfortunate when that need for funding surpasses what the team wants to do and forces them to commit to they need to do.
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winningkill
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Postby winningkill » January 6th, 2013, 2:33 pm

They haven't even updated the copyright. It says copyright 2011 and we are in 2013.

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TheLastLink
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Postby TheLastLink » January 6th, 2013, 4:14 pm

ElectroYoshi wrote:Do you know how much profit atmosphir was making?
Zero.
Again. No. Players Club cost a lot of money for renewal, $5.99 if I'm remembering correctly. There were a lot of PC members on Atmosphir. I can't remember exactly how many, but there were. Also, people bought Atmos, which also cost money. They got the job done fine is what I'm getting at here.

Wow, I wonder why Halsey stepped in? Couldn't have been because he was trying to save his investment or something.
Well, Halsey wouldn't have had to save his investment had he not been in such deep financial debt and Cameron knows why he was dumb enough to blow off his taxes in the first place...

Everybody complained that the new content was for making money.
That is EXACTLY what is was added for.
You're not wrong here. Really, you're not. That said, there's a difference between actually making money and trying to make money and failing. Halsey did the latter. The Industrial Pack provided the first flow of players outta the game. Granted, it was a weak flow, but it was still there. The Aliens were added relatively quickly thereafter. Which resulted in a stronger, albeit not immensely, flow out of the game. Then Cars came. People did not like the idea of paying to play certain levels, and thus, drove off (Pun lolololololol). After that update, the money Halsey was trying to make was alienated almost entirely.

Good Work, Hals!
Image

It's completely childish to pretend that Atmosphir would have survived without money.
True. But after the immense flow of players out of the game, it wasn't making money, because tue money left along with the community.

"They forced the devs to work on his vision, not Dave's"
DAVE'S "VISION" WAS NOT MAKING MONEY.
...Again, Dave's vision was making money because the community liked it. Halsey's vision made little money because the community did NOT like it.

Atmosphir would have bit the dust a whole lot sooner if Halsey hadn't stepped in.
ARE YOU SERIOUS?!?!? Again, Halsey's vision was ALIENATING the money it was supposed to be MAKING, with every single update. That is neither hyperbole nor metaphor. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE!

You let your emotions get in the way of logic and reason.
0/10.
...Man, I'm irritated.
If you want to believe this, fine, go right ahead. If you want to try to argue this post, fine, but expect me to be entirely unconvinced by it

1: I never said it wasn't making money.
I said it was never making profit.

2: So you're saying that if he hadn't been in financial trouble, he wouldn't have tried to save his investment. It's the investor's JOB to make sure his investment is doing well, to make sure he has the maximum return on investment.

3: You're counting the misses, but not the hits. The people who went on the forums were always the minority of the people who played Atmosphir. The fact is, people bought cars and firearms.
And I wasn't saying that he succeeded in his measures, but I WAS saying that he did everything that he did to save Atmosphir from financial ruin.

4: The community was never the majority of Atmosphir players.

5: I didn't specify. It was never making PROFIT. Whether the community liked it or not was irrelevant.

6: I was never saying that Halsey's plan worked in the long run, But there WERE a lot of players who DID IN FACT JOIN because there were firearms and gritty design pieces.
In addition, Since Atmosphir was not making a profit, why would ANYONE want to continue with the status quo? It's pure fallacy.

I am NOT saying that making gritty additions to design mode and play mode were the only thing they could have done to save Atmosphir, nor am I saying it was smart. (And NOT DOING ANYTHING like the devs WERE doing was even worse for Atmosphir's longevity.)
What I am saying is that it is stupid and
immature to scapegoat Halsey as the evilest man alive and singlehandedly ruined Atmosphir. It is as childish as it is convenient.

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Miniike
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Postby Miniike » January 6th, 2013, 5:25 pm

I'm going to stay out of the debate and say something positive.

I just falcon punched Halsey Minor.
/\
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Me staying out of the debate.
:pigflag: for fricking fricks sake why do i still care :pigflag:
:lock: 1. Wild Life 2. China Pig 3. The Blimp (Mousetrapreplica) 4. Sugar N' Spikes 5. Ant Man Bee :lock:
:bomb: you'll love it, it's a way of life :bomb:

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winningkill
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Postby winningkill » January 6th, 2013, 7:19 pm

Miniike wrote:I'm going to stay out of the debate and say something positive.

I just falcon punched Halsey Minor.
/\
|
|
|
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Me staying out of the debate.

Halsey Minor got knocked down! Yes!

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Miniike
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Postby Miniike » January 6th, 2013, 7:53 pm

winningkill wrote:Halsey Minor got knocked down! Yes!

Halsey Minor used BAD MEMORIES!
It's super effective!
Miniike drank MOUNTAIN DEW.
Recovered 100 HP!
Halsey used LINDEN PECK!
But, it failed!
Miniike used FALCON PUNCH.
A critical hit!
It's super effective!
Enemy Halsey Minor fainted exploded!
:pigflag: for fricking fricks sake why do i still care :pigflag:
:lock: 1. Wild Life 2. China Pig 3. The Blimp (Mousetrapreplica) 4. Sugar N' Spikes 5. Ant Man Bee :lock:
:bomb: you'll love it, it's a way of life :bomb:

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ElectroYoshi
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Postby ElectroYoshi » January 7th, 2013, 12:11 am

TLL, this is a secret so try to keep it on the down low, OK? *Whisper* Profit and money are EXACTLY THE SAME!!!

Also, the devs were doing stuff. What they WEREN'T doing was communicating.

On a different note...
What I am saying is that it is stupid and
immature to scapegoat Halsey as the evilest man alive and singlehandedly ruined Atmosphir. It is as childish as it is convenient.


If you wanna believe I'm bashing Halsey out of immaturity and childishness, and convenience, fine. Go ahead. But blaming Halsey is all I can really do when all the stuff that led to the downfall of Atmosphir came while Halsey was leading development.

Halsey is the sole tyrant responsible for Atmosphir's demise. That is my absolute final word on the matter.
I need a shot again, that sweet adrenaline.

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Miniike
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Postby Miniike » January 7th, 2013, 10:01 am

OK, I'll hop into the debate.

Atmosphir failed for many reasons. Not all of those reasons were Halsey. He was one of the main causes, but there were many others. Bottom line, Atmosphir is gone. The end.
:pigflag: for fricking fricks sake why do i still care :pigflag:
:lock: 1. Wild Life 2. China Pig 3. The Blimp (Mousetrapreplica) 4. Sugar N' Spikes 5. Ant Man Bee :lock:
:bomb: you'll love it, it's a way of life :bomb:

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winningkill
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Postby winningkill » January 7th, 2013, 10:17 am

Miniike wrote:Halsey Minor used BAD MEMORIES!
It's super effective!
Miniike drank MOUNTAIN DEW.
Recovered 100 HP!
Halsey used LINDEN PECK!
But, it failed!
Miniike used FALCON PUNCH.
A critical hit!
It's super effective!
Enemy Halsey Minor fainted exploded!

No more Halsey Minor! Yea!

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Magmar
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Postby Magmar » January 7th, 2013, 10:36 am

ElectroYoshi wrote:TLL, this is a secret so try to keep it on the down low, OK? *Whisper* Profit and money are EXACTLY THE SAME!!!



I'll say it so TLL doesn't have to(Unless he still wants to, of course). Profit and money are not quite the same thing. Money, is money. Not too much to say there. But, profit is how much money you make based on how much you already spent. Lemme give an example: Let's say MiSt spent $500 to create the entirety of Atmosphir. The community then spent a grand total of $1,500 on club, atmos, etc. That would mean they made a profit of $1,000 because they had to spend $500 to bring Atmosphir to marketing.

Hopefully that was understandable enough. :)

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Postby Phantomboy » January 7th, 2013, 1:33 pm

To sort of restate something I mentioned on the Atmosphir forums a while back;
@ElectroYoshi That is absolutely true, bashing Halsey for wanting to make back his investments into the company isn't fair. Sure, he didn't make the best decisions and the game may have took a steep decline after the community first heard of the guy (Actually, I cannot be sure on that one- I have a very distant memory of his name coming up on the Atmosphir forum way back in early beta days- not sure.) and his decisions tended to be what is beneficial to the profit of the game and not the product of it. However, the bottom line is that he, Halsey, whoever this person truly may be, isn't evil, he isn't stupid and he isn't the devil. He is a business man, looking out for the best of the company as a whole, its income and all. All the same I am sure he was concerned that he had lost a lot of money, however I would tend to say anyone in this economy would be in his shoes.

In conclusion; I don't hate the guy, I don't dislike him, I think he may have made poor decisions but I think we all have at one time or another. I forgive him, in fact I'm honestly ready to put this behind me. I am sure there is still hard feeling all around this debate- and at some point I hope you forgive Halsey too, he doesn't deserve to forever live as a curse word amongst our community.
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Postby Wowfunhappy » January 7th, 2013, 1:55 pm

I think Atmosphir should have just moved to a pay-up-front model: You pay $15 for the game, period end of story.

Or an advertising model. Or, you can play games for free, but you pay for design mode. Or the web-based version is free, but you pay for the desktop client.

There's a ton of ideas they could have looked into.

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winningkill
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Postby winningkill » January 7th, 2013, 1:56 pm

Wowfunhappy wrote:I think Atmosphir should have just moved to a pay-up-front model: You pay $15 for the game, period end of story.

Well now it's gone.

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Postby Newah » January 7th, 2013, 2:15 pm

Just gonna say, if Dave had continued work on Atmosphir, people would have liked it, would've attracted more people, and therefore more profit. But Halsey wanted quick cash, being the biggest tax delinquent in California, and therefore alienated everyone in Atmosphir, and ruined it.

Atmosphir wasn't a cashcow-but it could've been if it had some time.

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TheLastLink
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Postby TheLastLink » January 7th, 2013, 2:26 pm

ElectroYoshi wrote:TLL, this is a secret so try to keep it on the down low, OK? *Whisper* Profit and money are EXACTLY THE SAME!!!

Also, the devs were doing stuff. What they WEREN'T doing was communicating.

On a different note...
What I am saying is that it is stupid and
immature to scapegoat Halsey as the evilest man alive and singlehandedly ruined Atmosphir. It is as childish as it is convenient.

If you wanna believe I'm bashing Halsey out of immaturity and childishness, and convenience, fine. Go ahead. But blaming Halsey is all I can really do when all the stuff that led to the downfall of Atmosphir came while Halsey was leading development.

Halsey is the sole tyrant responsible for Atmosphir's demise. That is my absolute final word on the matter.

If you spend $1,000,000 on a game and earn $0.01 from it, that's not exactly profit, is it.

You're not making a very good case for yourself when you say you're not blaming Halsey out of immaturity, when you've already said this:
ElectroYoshi wrote:[Bleep] Halsey Minor. [Bleep] that [Bleep]-ing [Bleep] face and [Bleep] every single [Bleep]-ing thing he [Bleep]-ing stands for, and [Bleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep]!!!

ElectroYoshi wrote:Halsey is the sole tyrant responsible for Atmosphir's demise.

Complete maturity, ladies and gentlemen.

The game was losing money, and Dave LEFT. Who else was going to lead development? Adz?

If the game had been making money, Halsey wouldn't have tampered with it. The issue is, the game was LOSING money. And there was in fact a spike of users joining because of the gritty additions. People bought firearms and marine suits. It wasn't a sustainable spike, but it WAS a spike.
I'm not saying the way he went about trying to make Atmosphir intro a profitable game was the smartest way possible, but NOT doing ANYTHING would have been worse. That's the bottom line.

If Dave had come up with a successful business model, Atmosphir wouldn't have failed. And TECHNICALLY, it didn't "fail". All online games end some time. Atmosphir lasted a good long time.

That's the way it is.

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winningkill
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Postby winningkill » January 7th, 2013, 2:47 pm

It's true with most of the atmosphir crew gone and not making money atmosphir is gone. we can make a new game but it wont be named atmosphir.

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tta
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Postby tta » January 7th, 2013, 5:32 pm

I don't even know why atmosphir is still provoking arguments, despite it being:

*ahem*

A COMPLETE AND UTTER LOST CAUSE

I mean sure, it is kind of sad that atmosphir, (which, let's face it, despite it's flaws was a GOOD GAME), was completely and hilariously flushed down the toilet, but I've gotten over it and so should you, I mean:

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