Windows 10 Thread

Phones, computers, tablets, and all other forms of electronic wizardry
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ThatOneFox
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Postby ThatOneFox » July 31st, 2015, 4:27 pm

I really dont get why people are so obsessed over start menus in windows operating systems. its not like the whole OS is ruined if the start menu isnt perfect...
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Postby Sebastian Lawe » August 1st, 2015, 12:15 am

StreetLights wrote:I really dont get why people are so obsessed over start menus in windows operating systems. its not like the whole OS is ruined if the start menu isnt perfect...


The main problem with the Win8 Metro menu was the fact that it was a pain in the ass in regards to having to find an app via clicking. Not too many people seem to like directly typing the app they want (which of course made metro unobtrusive to power users).

Windows 8 also gimped a ton of dev features/made certain complex features take 10x more steps, which made me defect to Windows 7 for the Windows 8 lifespan.

It really boils down to the fact that the Start Menu is your main app launcher. You want that as easy to use, efficient, and as manageable as possible. Some people may not like the distractions of live tiles either (I personally dont mind them in this new fashion).

But, hey, I've never properly used a start menu for what it was since they added a search bar, and now I shout at Cortana.

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Postby ThatOneFox » August 1st, 2015, 5:03 am

So explain how finding programs via clicking was any different to windows 7?

win 7
Start->all programs->scrollscrollscrollscroll->click

win 8
Start->scrollscrollscrollscroll->click

Win 8 was actually better in that respect then seb.
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Postby Sebastian Lawe » August 1st, 2015, 7:19 am

StreetLights wrote:So explain how finding programs via clicking was any different to windows 7?

win 7
Start->all programs->scrollscrollscrollscroll->click

win 8
Start->scrollscrollscrollscroll->click

Win 8 was actually better in that respect then seb.


Its more of a subjective thing there. Majority of people hated metro. Keep in mind that tiles are much larger than folder icons in a proper start menu. You're having to cover more pixel distance, which is in no way better. Even in that alternate view, theres still more more pixel distance to cover.

Windows 7/10 start menu is moreso, *Frequently Accessed stuff, other stuff*

Window 8 start menu was *sadsaddwfetewqwdaw, alphabetical order* unless you wanted to bother sorting that stuff yourself in the primary tile area. It was a random jumble of every app you had, till you one day decided you wanted to put the effort into taming stuff.

You should hear the conversations people above 25 had about Windows 8 on their PCs. Common terms were, confusing, clunky, too much effort to use, stupid looking. Dont even get me started about charms. Business' had a non existant adoption rate for Windows 8 because they didnt want to retrain users (yes, most business users are technology illiterate, excluding developers). Business is Microsofts core user base, and source of money, aside from OEM licensed computers. The fact that metro confused the shit out of general consumers and business folk says something. The few of us who are younger than 25 and have more exposure and experience with technology are the minority. If some of us minority didnt mind metro on a PC experience, fine. But thats a very small percentage of the PC user base. Most users wont know where to begin in regards to installing a third party start menu either. I mean, one of my sisters is 13, and she cant wrap her mind around downloading movies, let alone using Windows Explorer to transfer songs to her phone. Windows 8 was even more traumatising.

But, that atrosity is in the past now. We have Windows 10 to save us. With Cortana, theres potentially a full hands free experience for the general consumer too.

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Postby ElectroYoshi » August 1st, 2015, 10:34 am

StreetLights wrote:I really dont get why people are so obsessed over start menus in windows operating systems. its not like the whole OS is ruined if the start menu isnt perfect...


Again, it's a tablet interface. How in any way is a tablet interface suited to a typical PC? If I wanted an interface like that, I'd buy an actual tablet, not a laptop. The fact that people eventually figured out ways to work around mete doesn't make its inclusion any less haphazard.

And honestly, if that haphazard design choice is an OS's biggest selling point, it will ALWAYS make the manufacturer look bad.
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Postby ThatOneFox » August 1st, 2015, 12:30 pm

However either way, if you clicked the start button, chances are you were going to be searching for items anyway so what difference does it make if its fullscreen or not?
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Postby Entity » August 1st, 2015, 3:21 pm

I like to keep my desktop/taskbar relatively clean. I have a few folders on my desktop, my most used applications on my taskbar, and then my lesser used ones, but ones I definitely still use regularly, in the start menu. That's just what I've gotten used to, I don't like the way a ton of squares look :P
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Postby ElectroYoshi » August 1st, 2015, 4:39 pm

Yeah, exactly. I turn my desktop icons off, and use the taskbar and start menu to access my most frequently used apps, so I almost never use the search function. And again, a tablet interface has absolutely no business being on a PC, because that's not what PC's are made for.

Edit: To make this point a bit more clear:

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Postby Entity » August 1st, 2015, 9:12 pm

ElectroYoshi wrote:Image


Out of curiosity, what are the sources for that image?
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Postby ElectroYoshi » August 2nd, 2015, 12:39 am

I need a shot again, that sweet adrenaline.

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Postby ThatOneFox » August 2nd, 2015, 6:09 am

So basically my point still stands. It's a different UI, but you'd still use it in pretty much the exact same way as a start menu.
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Postby ElectroYoshi » August 2nd, 2015, 1:59 pm

StreetLights wrote:So basically my point still stands. It's a different UI, but you'd still use it in pretty much the exact same way as a start menu.


That still doesn't excuse the decision to make people learn a whole new interface with no warning and no reason. Just because "you'd still use it in pretty much the exact same way as a start menu" doesn't mean it's a good design choice. This is why I'm willing to cut the Launchpad in OS X some slack, because even though I don't like using it, OS X is made with that interface in mind.

Let me try breaking it down like this. From the very beginning, Windows was designed around the start menu. It was made so that people could just click on something and instantaneously access all of their most commonly used programs. It was extremely convenient, and allowed work to be done efficiently for both the everyday user and the professional user. Then, in 2012, 2 decades later, after 7 versions with a start menu, they, out of nowhere, axe the start menu and replace it with a tablet interface. Said tablet interface is not only extremely ill-suited to a PC, but displays ever single one of your programs rather than the ones you use most frequently, making things much harder to find unless you use the search function, which Microsoft also somehow managed to make hard to find.

You cannot tell me that's not at least a little ****ed up.
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Postby Sebastian Lawe » August 3rd, 2015, 10:01 am

ElectroYoshi wrote:That still doesn't excuse the decision to make people learn a whole new interface with no warning and no reason. Just because "you'd still use it in pretty much the exact same way as a start menu" doesn't mean it's a good design choice. This is why I'm willing to cut the Launchpad in OS X some slack, because even though I don't like using it, OS X is made with that interface in mind.

Let me try breaking it down like this. From the very beginning, Windows was designed around the start menu. It was made so that people could just click on something and instantaneously access all of their most commonly used programs. It was extremely convenient, and allowed work to be done efficiently for both the everyday user and the professional user. Then, in 2012, 2 decades later, after 7 versions with a start menu, they, out of nowhere, axe the start menu and replace it with a tablet interface. Said tablet interface is not only extremely ill-suited to a PC, but displays ever single one of your programs rather than the ones you use most frequently, making things much harder to find unless you use the search function, which Microsoft also somehow managed to make hard to find.

You cannot tell me that's not at least a little ****ed up.


To add on to this.
A beaten up car, and a Ferrari both share the same purpose. Doesnt mean the beaten up car is better than the Ferrari.
Now imagine you had the Ferrari all your life, and had to all of a sudden switch to a junk car. You'd be pissed.

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Postby ThatOneFox » August 4th, 2015, 7:03 am

However the windows 8 start menu isnt broken. It serves its purpose just fine.
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Postby Sebastian Lawe » August 4th, 2015, 10:27 am

StreetLights wrote:However the windows 8 start menu isnt broken. It serves its purpose just fine.


It served part of its purpose fine. I wont deny it had amazing search. But theres also a hotkey that lets you skip metro and pop up the application search bar independantly.

If it werent for the fact metro had search, I'd of flipped my desk. For the people who dont search to begin with, they already flipped their desks.

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Postby ElectroYoshi » August 4th, 2015, 8:27 pm

I think I'm in love with Cortana guys. <3
I need a shot again, that sweet adrenaline.

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Postby Sebastian Lawe » August 6th, 2015, 12:28 pm

ElectroYoshi wrote:I think I'm in love with Cortana guys. <3


Welcome to the club :P
(stay away from my girlfriend, she's mine)

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Postby Bad At Gravity » August 7th, 2015, 10:26 pm

Sebastian Lawe wrote:Welcome to the club :P
(stay away from my girlfriend, she's mine)


Sure...

Image
Why the Frak does she have toes?
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Postby ThatOneFox » August 7th, 2015, 10:57 pm

0/10 not a fox.
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Postby Bad At Gravity » August 8th, 2015, 9:41 am

-1/42
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