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Psa: Gameplay Elements You Should Avoid In Your Levels

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papaya
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Psa: Gameplay Elements You Should Avoid In Your Levels

Post by papaya »

Preface
Let's be honest, some of the props and hazards available to us in atmosphir are atrocious. It is an imperfect game in terms of achieving your game designer vision. We can all admit that, right? You gotta laugh at anyone who uses the industrial hazards seriously, for example - at least, using them when not required to by the aesthetics or visuals of the level. However, recently in levels made by designers both veteran and new, designers both great and not so great, there have been some gameplay elements that are simply unfun. I hope to talk about a few of these and why they should not be used. In most cases, should not be used ever. In some cases, they have their uses but they are few and far between.

If response to this type of thread is positive, I will do a follow-up talking about puzzles and gameplay that I think are really great within atmosphir, since I really should stop being so negative about everything. But I'd rather cut out the crap first, since it can ruin an otherwise half-decent level.

Springboards
I originally wanted to start out with my most hated puzzle of all but I feel that's like hitting you with a train and then following that up with a bunch of toy cars. So, let's talk about the humble springboard. Or the flower. There's another one too probably. If you don't know how they work, their intention is for you to use them to bounce high up into the air to arrive at your destination. Sorry ElectroYoshi, but I'm gonna use your level as an example because it's the worst offender I've seen in a long time.

The springboard, by design, pushes you up into the air. That's it. A very simple prop. However, it is very bad at its job. Since it works like a trampoline, that is to say that there is a precise moment you must hit the jump button for it to propel you the furthest, it is quite difficult to use. Once you jump on, you basically have to jump straight away or else you'll lose momentum. I mean, it's great in a closed environment, where you can try again if you mess up..

but unfortunately, In ElectroYoshi's Sable, you're tasked with jumping across about 6 springboards. Each one sends you hurtling across open air. The first two are OK, they're straight vertical bounces. That's bearable. The third then brings moving horizontally into the mix. That's where the problem gets worse. See, if you've ever worked with springboards, you may find that they have a quirk in that the best bounce is in the dead centre. Anywhere else will send you off-course. So, when there are these GIANT springboards that you have to jump squarely in the middle of, across a gap that you can barely make, it does not create good gameplay. There is genuinely no excuse, no reason to use springboards. Use jump powerups. On the topic of powerups..

Sticky Powerup
I don't like this for one main reason - it bugs out a lot. As you'd expect, it forces you to stick to surfaces you walk on. That's the problem. If you jump, or if your feet leave the floor for whatever reason (perhaps shoddy level design?) you're thrust back into normal gravity and if you were anything besides walking on a slight incline, that means falling back down, to your death in most cases. It's not a very interesting mechanic in most cases either. It's a way for the designer to say 'I don't want to use gravity changers'. Lame.

There's not really much to say for this. Just as with the springboard, there's a better alternative in the form of ACTUAL GRAVITY AREAS and you really should not use these. Please.

Mobs: Which enemies are OK to use?
The shortlist is as follows: Muka Scout, Aphelion Marauder, Delphacode, Muka Axeman. Then, there are a few others that you should use in only certain situations. The four listed previously are good for their simple attack patterns, easy hitboxes and in most cases are good because they have low health and low damage. Combat sucks in atmosphir, so make it as simple as possible while trying to avoid long drawn out slapfests.

The Cryptkeeper is a good alternative to the scout/axeman for spooky levels. They are good with low health and should not have high health.
The Skull can be used if it's in an enclosed room, and should never be used if there is no ceiling, or if there is a way for the skull to escape. Similarly for the Aphelion Airforce. The Bots also suffer from the same issues as the skull - that is, don't use them in open areas. The Atmobot is OK for use in same situations as the skull but PLEASE do not use the Sentrybot. The shots it fires have a larger knockback, and being ranged and small and nimble and FLYING means he is nowhere near as fun a puzzle element as the pikeman is.
The Pikeman can be used if there is no ceiling, but should not be used if there are no walls to protect you from his knockback. Unless, of course, that's the point of the puzzle. Then it's fine, but please make the puzzle involve working your way around him (give him infinite health) rather than fighting him. It's much more fun to dodge him than try and fight him without being flown into the next level over.
The Crab has a really horrible attack pattern and if left at default values is a terrible fight. Either make him have low HP or don't use him.
The Artosiphon and Muka Boss suffer from similar problems. People see them as boss enemies, and then crank up the health to 11 and the damage to 12 and call it a day. This is not how they should be used. The correct way they should be used is not at all. The Muka boss is incredibly frustrating melee and incredibly boring from range. The Artosiphon I've never actually seen used so I won't dive into that.
The Muka Shaman is, I suppose, a good ranged mob, but the shots are so easy to dodge and they have a huge knockback. Please don't try to use them unless you contain them away from the player. Even then, they have a tendency to run off their platforms and into the fray below.
The Crow is shit.

As a general rule of thumb, low health and low to moderate damage is best to make combat bearable. Ideally, avoid combat altogether in your levels.

The Industrial Hazards
are shit
dont use them

Physics affected blocks
Hoo boy, this is a big one. I see these used a lot. Hell, I've used them myself. Having playtested my own level and played other levels involving them, let me tell you - they are awful. If you've ever tried to move a pushable block, you know what I'm talking about. See, there's a problem in that they have to slide along the ground. Any uneven ground and moving tiny blocks is an absolute nightmare. When they're larger, you have to hit em with your wooden sword. This is not fun. If they get knocked into a corner, they get stuck. This is not fun. Hell, if they get pushed into a wall, moving them becomes harder because now they have to slide against friction of both the wall and the floor. Try it. It's truly the worst.

And yet, people try and build entire levels around pushing these stupid dumb-ass blocks. It's not fun. People have tried on the old atmosphir. They were almost always unplayable because they were either so finnicky or they were just so boring. With free moving physics comes a lot of great puzzles and gameplay, but since there's no way to properly push a block along specific paths, you really should not even attempt to use these.

The same goes not just for the wooden box we all hate, but ANY physics affected block or prop. Especially prop. Find me a good design involving the coconut prop and I will pay you. Not really.

so thats it. 5 props you should not use.

Is that really it? Does anything else suck?
Oh definitely. 'Guess where the area trigger' puzzles are the absolute worst, and puzzles that have no hints or nudges as to what might be the solution are bad for anything but proof of concept levels, but I've talked about them already here:

http://onemoreblock.com/forum/threads/t ... post-80962
http://onemoreblock.com/forum/threads/t ... post-81796

funny thing I just noticed, both these levels have terrible puzzles and they both are called The Box. Ain't that weird?

Shoutouts to some elements I hate but can't be bothered to type shit about:
The Comet Powerup
Ledgehanging as the only way to progress
Ranged Combat
Levels without secrets

So, thanks for reading. Please leave feedback below, anything else you feel I should add, things you think are unfairly blasted.
I'd also like to note that although I do blast Electroyoshi's level fairly heavily here, the first two 'puzzles' are pretty boring, though the way the comet powerup was used later in the level I did enjoy. I do not mean to offend Electroyoshi personally, only to use his level as an example for everyone else. We can all improve our level designing skills.

also this way I don't need to write a full review for it. Heh.
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Miniike
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Post by Miniike »

I would put a Citizen Kane clap here but I'm too lazy.

I'll keep this in mind when I actually design an actual level that I actually started and may actually finish at some point.
:pigflag: for fricking fricks sake why do i still care :pigflag:
:lock: 1. Wild Life 2. China Pig 3. The Blimp (Mousetrapreplica) 4. Sugar N' Spikes 5. Ant Man Bee :lock:
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Post by SirWrek »

Miniike wrote:Citizen Kane
Yes.

Also, mostly great points Papaya. But I'm now going to make a level solely based on coconut pushing puzzles- screw boxes.

:p
I've been around since 2008. And I'm old. Yay. Pretty sure I notched a fair amount of LOTD/XPs but somehow always like my underrated levels more. Go figure. My best design days are behind me, but I'll try to not be too shabby.
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papaya
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Post by papaya »

no but seriously most of the things listed here have been done before and always done terribly because they're so uninspired.

if someone actually made a proper coconut pushing puzzle that wasn't boring or frustrating that'd be really cool
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Post by Miniike »

Okay here it is
Image
SirWrek wrote:Yes.
ikr
:pigflag: for fricking fricks sake why do i still care :pigflag:
:lock: 1. Wild Life 2. China Pig 3. The Blimp (Mousetrapreplica) 4. Sugar N' Spikes 5. Ant Man Bee :lock:
:bomb: you'll love it, it's a way of life :bomb:
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Post by Phantomboy »

I actually have to disagree with the sticky power-up one entirely. Yes it can be used in lazy design, but so can every element. Tacking it onto an avoidance list kind of starves a lot mechanics from being explored and therefore matured.

Especially in puzzle levels in which the play completes several obstacles on one level, they power-up may allow them to climb up to another level or perhaps completing one section will spawn in power-up that allows the player to climb back up if they happen to fall. It isn't a terrible power-up, but much like box pushing, combat, bombs, lava blocks, falling blocks and falling spikes, it can be used in ways the don't complement how it functions if the level is built around it's draw backs. Which is one of the main rules of all gameplay elements, see how far you can push what they game provides and see how you can build barriers to discourage or prevent undesired actions of the game.

Also, despite addressing it moderately at the bottom of the page. It is really appreciated if approach of peoples levels with respect. You and I have discussed this privately and two days later you aren't exercising that, so please be respectful of other peoples levels. Criticisms are always encouraged, but they both create a nicer environment and are more likely to be heeded if they are done whilst respecting the level designer.
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Post by papaya »

I don't think I correctly got across what I was saying with that closing statement regarding electroyoshi.
Look at it like this: If I was, as a movie critic, to talk about bad uses of CGI, or errors within CGI, I would typically use a more popular film if they are a good example of it. I might use Avatar as an example because everyone's seen Avatar and therefore will most likely understand if I showed them a few shots of it. Sable is a LOTD, so people are more likely to have played it since it's made more popular by being on that front page of levels. We also would hold Avatar to a higher standard than an amateur movie, just as we'd hold Sable to a higher standard than a random, not LOTD level.

Similarly, because it's a new(ish) level, this can also work as some personal feedback to the designer while also improving other people's designs.

So yeah, Electroyoshi's level is a level with a lot of effort clearly put in, and it's also a frequently played level, so I think using it as a negative example is fine. If/when I make a thread about good, unique puzzle elements I've seen, I think the puzzle involving the comet powerups is one of the best puzzles I've seen recently in a level (Basically, your jump is reduced to nothing and you are given a comet powerup, so you travel only horizontally and not vertically, and there are comet powerups creating a sort of 'maze'. If you collect one of them, it gives you a comet powerup with a time limit of zero, so you'd fall to your death. I really liked it.). However, the springboard puzzle was one of the worst puzzles I've seen in a while (and actually really annoyed me) so this is actually kinda where the thread idea stemmed from - I wanted to blast moving block puzzles and springboards, but I thought I might as well try and do it in a larger thread with more focus on helping others rather than just saying 'man, fuck your level electro it SUCKED'

and i might get a few laughs too which makes me happy
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Post by SirWrek »

So I made a level right? And guess what- it has an epic coconut related challenge in it. :3

Derp.
I've been around since 2008. And I'm old. Yay. Pretty sure I notched a fair amount of LOTD/XPs but somehow always like my underrated levels more. Go figure. My best design days are behind me, but I'll try to not be too shabby.
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Post by jhjoseph91 »

pardon my ignorance, but what does the pikeman look like?

i can't find it
i'm from another dimension!
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