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Uuh, Objection?

A place to talk about our community

yeah?

get rekt
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Total votes: 4

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TheLastLink
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Post by TheLastLink »

If this thread gets locked, it means two things:

Wowfun will have proved that he is utterly unserious about doing what needs to be done for OMB and for this community, and I am leaving, banned or unbanned, and won't be coming back until/unless something serious happens with the game or the site. If it gets locked, chances are neither will happen, which means that chances are I'm not coming back.

With that said,

This is SIMPLY UNACCEPTABLE.
Now surely you've by now noticed that I (TLL) have a history of clashing with the community moderators and have a general (not personal) dislike for them, and generally strong as well. Now one would think that there are two possibilities: He either has an irrational hatred for moderators, or there's a reason for it. After all that has happened, do you really think this is all unwarranted?

No. It is warranted, and I will explain why. Now most of the mods on this site were either users or moderators themselves on Atmosphir, and have a general habit of maintaining an air of strict professionalism, officiality, and authority, and strive to maintain general secrecy in their affairs.

Now this is all well and good, to be expected, reasonable, etc...

On a site like Atmosphir where they are supposed to be peacekeepers (like any other site), representatives of a company for the community, and (because of the demographic of the game) strict authority figures.

It worked well enough (emphasis on the "enough", there were a few major mistakes made but I digress) on Atmosphir.
Everyone saw how awfully it was bungled on Voxelus. I shouldn't even have to explain why...
It didn't work on Voxelus because they applied the same moderation ethic to Voxelus, which was a different site, with a much smaller, integrated community that was a lot more familiar with eachother. Instead of just letting people alone, everyone was treated like a 12 year old who didn't know anyone else on the forum. Frustration boilups and flame wars and epic lulz ensued.
It was a disaster.

I'll post the rest later but I'm too burned out right now.
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TheLastLink
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Post by TheLastLink »

Miniike wrote:Of course he didn't mean to silence legitimate discussion.

But he did.
That is EXACTLY IT.

thanx phantomboy for not locking the thread
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Miniike
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Post by Miniike »

Image
:pigflag: for fricking fricks sake why do i still care :pigflag:
:lock: 1. Wild Life 2. China Pig 3. The Blimp (Mousetrapreplica) 4. Sugar N' Spikes 5. Ant Man Bee :lock:
:bomb: you'll love it, it's a way of life :bomb:
tta
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Post by tta »

my earlier post was legitamite phantom but thank you for not locking this
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DvChayz
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Post by DvChayz »

god bles thl ast lingk for the bueatifurl speech
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TheLastLink
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Post by TheLastLink »

Alright I'm a little calmer. Let's try again and continue.

I'll be the first to admit I have no prior moderating experience, but that doesn't preclude me from being able to see the blatant and inherent flaws in how this community is run. Criticism doesn't have to be based on experience to be legitimate. The point is:

It is no coincidence that the moderation and overall community management (which I will refer to the moderation in general as) has crashed through the floor since Atmosphir died. The reason is that nobody seems to understand that the heavy-handed, law-and-order show-of-authority type community management that was necessary for a game forum full of immature (It's not meant to be an insult, but it is the truth) kids who didn't know anyone else and didn't know any better, doesn't work for a community of people who are all friends and all know eachother relatively well and can all behave themselves.

Yes, we could all do well to take ourselves a little more seriously, make more of an effort to not get off topic or start arguments, but the bulk of the problem is that the management is bent on (in the literal sense of the word) dictating the community, instead of letting the community dictate itself, and gently push it in the right direction if things start to get out of hand.

Moderation and management on a site such as this should strive to moderate as little as possible, be noticed even less, and take definitive action (like banning someone) only as a last resort.
It shouldn't be the kind of "RESPECT MY AUTHORITY", professional-at-all-times-even-if-it-kills-you, secretive, and quite frankly lazy management we see now. Moderators shouldn't be community fixtures, not on a site like this.

This brings us to the ban of papaya, the status quo, the future of the atmosphir project, and wowfunhappy.

I'll write more.
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Wowfunhappy
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Post by Wowfunhappy »

tta wrote:and how are moderator problems going to be recognized as problems AND dealt with appropriately if they are one-on-one conversations with moderators? im pretty sure that's not how things work. a problem in our government isn't fixed when a citizen goes to the white house and tells the government men that it's a problem.
So you didn't actually read my post. I suggested that you create a group conversation with everyone who is concerned.

I don't know of a single, functional forum that discusses mod issues out in the open like this. Not a single one.

I have a migraine right now so I haven't read a ton.
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TheLastLink
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Post by TheLastLink »

Wowfunhappy wrote:So you didn't actually read my post. I suggested that you create a group conversation with everyone who is concerned.

I don't know of a single, functional forum that discusses mod issues out in the open like this. Not a single one.
Only, OMB is not a functional forum.
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Miniike
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Post by Miniike »

Disscusing mod issues is essential to keep this community alive, because we can't afford to drive people away with this godawful moderation. This concerns the whole community, who, BTW, is the "everyone concerned" you are referring too.

Shape up or we have no future.
:pigflag: for fricking fricks sake why do i still care :pigflag:
:lock: 1. Wild Life 2. China Pig 3. The Blimp (Mousetrapreplica) 4. Sugar N' Spikes 5. Ant Man Bee :lock:
:bomb: you'll love it, it's a way of life :bomb:
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ElectroYoshi
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Post by ElectroYoshi »

Miniike wrote:A person made an incredibly stupid argument, and it was pointed out. How is that out of hand?
OK, lemme reword that. There's a fine line between discouraging debate in general and discouraging debate that ends up like this.
tta wrote: a post where somebody makes their (bad) argument and it backfires shouldn't make a thread get locked. that is debating. i thought you have been making change omb, and now i am disappointed.
Well, yes, exactly.

What is acceptable in debate:
  • That's not really true. The reality is...
  • You raise a good point, but...
  • While that is true to a point...
What is not acceptable in debate and would serve only to make this forum miles less appealing:
  • ARE YOU ****ING SERIOUS?!?!
  • OH MY GOD YOU ARE A FREAKING IDIOT!!!
  • YOU HAVE NO SENSE AND YOU ARE A DISGRACE AND YOU SUCK AND I HATE YOU!!!11!1!!!1!!11!1!1ONE
that being said, electroyoshi's malicious remark on my comment was a personal attack and should not be tolerated, especially if he is making the remark about MY DEAD FRATHER t h a t . w a s . a . j o k e
This is just beating a dead horse first of all. Secondly, you really don't want to end a sentence with a joke if you want it to be taken seriously. And lastly, it's not like YOU aren't plenty guilty of it too.
Spoiler
tta wrote:1: YOU'RE the one who's hilarious, I was waiting for you to reply and man was it worth it.
tta wrote:and to reply to your precious, fiery posts.
tta wrote:Oh, and "Crap up" isn't a term or figure of speech, just wanted to let you know. Talk to me in more big boy words if you want me to take you seriously, but on second thought; don't.
tta wrote:Oh gee, whats that ladies and gentlemen...

it looks like its TIME TO PLAY THE PAIN GAME STARRING TTA.

THAT'S RIGHT LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE'RE HERE IN THE GRAND WRESTLING FEDERATION STADIUM STARRING THE BROTHER'S MOTHER TTA, WHO'S ABOUT TO GIVE ELECTRO A TICKET TO THE PAIN TRAIN, AND YOU BET YOUR FEET HE'S GONNA GIVE HIM HIS MONEY'S WORTH. LET THE GAMES BEGIN BROTHER!

Oh i'm disgusting now? cool. Got any more 2hrtful4me insults? How about calling me "primate" or "gnat" or "neanderthal", that'll really show me.

OH WHAT'S THAT DID TTA JUST- OH YES HE DIIIDDD!! HE WENT ALLY YOOP ALLY OOP"AHLLY' YOOP"FOR THE SLAM-DUNK!

"You flood this forum with spam everywhere and tell anyone who tells you to stop to "Kill themselves""

Oh my god hehe too funny, its amazing how wrong you are with that one statement

1: I have already said: I don't spam forum-wide, if you'd look then you would find that mosta majority of the posts I make are significant and/or pertaining to a legitimate conversation, the rest is pigflags, and a SMALL MINORITY of the posts I make are legitimate spam where it's not allowed. Heck, with the ignorance that you're displaying right now, it kind of makes me think the forum deserves a little bit more spam.
2: I have EXCLUSIVELY told SL via an image link to "kill himself", it is/was an inside joke between me, DV, and streettights. You're constantly twisting the truth to make me look like an attention-seeking jackass, but I'm no stranger to that am I mods.

oh and top lel right here:

"And I'M a 16-y/o sophomore in high school..."

*clap clap* cool bro what an accomplishment

Christ, back off ya silly nark.

AHHWWW YEEEAH BROTHER, TTA JUST GOT ELECTRO IN ONE ELECTRIC HEADLOCK BROTHER, AHWHH YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
I rest my case.

and how are moderator problems going to be recognized as problems AND dealt with appropriately if they are one-on-one conversations with moderators? im pretty sure that's not how things work. a problem in our government isn't fixed when a citizen goes to the white house and tells the goverment men that it's a problem.


1) You can easily discuss it in a group conversation first of all. Not to mention that when it's kept off the actual forums, criticism of moderators is less clutter-inducing, more respectful, and most importantly, more effective.

2) The government is completely different from moderators on a forum and comparing the two is just delusional. Of course it's not solved when a citizen goes to the White House and tells the government there's a problem. That's because the government is vastly bigger than a group of moderators, and they monitor a whole country, which is vastly bigger than an online community. With online communities, this problem is not present.
the only person you are allowed to berate is electr- wait nevermind electro isn't gonna be in here due to the above
See, what you see as "silencing any and all disagreements" is, in reality, preventing childish comments like this.

I'll elaborate further if someone needs me too, but I think I've made my point.
I need a shot again, that sweet adrenaline.
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DvChayz
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Post by DvChayz »

tl;dr
good point electroyoshi!
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TheLastLink
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Post by TheLastLink »

ElectroYoshi wrote:OK, lemme reword that. There's a fine line between discouraging debate in general and discouraging debate that ends up like this.

Well, yes, exactly.

What is acceptable in debate:
  • That's not really true. The reality is...
  • You raise a good point, but...
  • While that is true to a point...
What is not acceptable in debate and would serve only to make this forum miles less appealing:
  • ARE YOU ****ING SERIOUS?!?!
  • OH MY GOD YOU ARE A FREAKING IDIOT!!!
  • YOU HAVE NO SENSE AND YOU ARE A DISGRACE AND YOU SUCK AND I HATE YOU!!!11!1!!!1!!11!1!1ONE
This is just beating a dead horse first of all. Secondly, you really don't want to end a sentence with a joke if you want it to be taken seriously. And lastly, it's not like YOU aren't plenty guilty of it too.
Spoiler
I rest my case.

1) You can easily discuss it in a group conversation first of all. Not to mention that when it's kept off the actual forums, criticism of moderators is less clutter-inducing, more respectful, and most importantly, more effective.

2) The government is completely different from moderators on a forum and comparing the two is just delusional. Of course it's not solved when a citizen goes to the White House and tells the government there's a problem. That's because the government is vastly bigger than a group of moderators, and they monitor a whole country, which is vastly bigger than an online community. With online communities, this problem is not present.

See, what you see as "silencing any and all disagreements" is, in reality, preventing childish comments like this.

I'll elaborate further if someone needs me too, but I think I've made my point.
Electro, you really need to stop overreacting and using hyperbole to prove your point. It doesn't reflect well on you.

Also I'm very curious as to the "my poll was rigged" charge. What alts did you delete that voted in the poll, Wowfun? Whose were they?
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Sebastian Lawe
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Post by Sebastian Lawe »

Really, all I got from reading through those long paragraph posts is this:
  • Moderation needs to be improved.
  • Moderation should feel transparent.
  • One can't simply revoke a ban and expect things to be fixed.
The rest is just jargon that doesn't really serve anything. And those three points didn't need their own thread.
So, I'm locking this thread on the following grounds. I see no constructive debate happening here, people are just batting opinions at each other with no actual progression towards the original issue brought up. As well, I don't think the few things I listed really needed to be conveyed via their own thread. A conversation would have done quite nicely, and is actually more likely to invoke a response, since alerts will pop up for anybody included inside one. Feel free to start a conversation with me, so we can discuss whatever needs discussing (like seriously, I didn't even know this thread existed until 16 hours later. It would of been much quicker to respond via PM since I get emailed and such). When I need deodorant, asking everybody on Facebook if they have deodorant doesn't do anything. That Facebook post gets drowned in an ocean of other posts. I direct the information to my father (who isn't the public), and actually get what I need.

It would be nice to have a constructive conversation free of unnecessary opinions that don't seem to go anywhere. I'd like to speak facts, and how to go about fixing the three relevant points made in this thread.

~Locked until somebody can convince me otherwise~
Locked